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Emperor Barbarossa
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Topic: The Greatest Decisive Battle In Whole History Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 07:31 |
Yes Spartakus, good point. If the Persians had "good" quality, they
would have slammed the phalanx easily. Not only did they not have good
troops, but they also did not have a good general. He got trounched by
Alexander with Alexander maybe taking 1,000 casualties(I know the
historical count says 100, but I think that may be a little
nationalistic)
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Ahmed The Fighter
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Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 08:05 |
The weak ability of persian,the unfit weapon against Greek waepon,mixed army from defeated nation by persian,phalanx then Alexander the reasons of defeated at Arbila.
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"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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Heraclius
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Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 12:50 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Don't rely on the movie "Alexander" for your opinion - I refuse to watch it, but I have read its inaccuracies are innumerable with regards to the Persian army. |
Good for you, unfortunately for me I thought Hollywood might just make a decent and accurate historical movie for once and watched it, alas my disappointment was even more than when I watched "Kingdom of heaven" which is an amazing achievement I suppose.
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A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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ok ge
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Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 13:04 |
Greatest battle is the battle of Talas, where Muslim troops defeated the Chinese Army and their allies.
Result: Opened the door of Islam to Central Asia, Hence!! Turkic tribes became Muslim, hence!! they build their current glory history. From nomadic steppe grazing tribes to Seljuks & Ottoman empires.
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D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
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Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:51 |
Yes, Islam was a very effective factor on Turkish civilization and historical procedure of becoming settled from the nomadic lifestyle...
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Spartan
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Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 17:32 |
Outstanding addition (not to mention a way too unkown battle in the West) cog gec.
No question that the Arab victory (I think they outnumbered the Chinese by more than 3 to 1) had huge ramifications on the future. The Arabs were put in a position to extend their Islamic influence throughout central Asia and take control of the important silk routes. The Chinese lost a good amount of power and their westward advance was halted. Muslim shipping in the Indian Ocean improved, which restricted the ocean's contacts with Hinduism and Buddhism. But the Muslims were never able to take control of the Himalayan northern borderlands, and much internal strife ensued among them. Paper manufacturing was first spread to Samarkand and Baghdad, then from there carried to Damascus, Cairo, and Morocco, and finally entered Europe through Italy and Spain. This was transmitted when Chinese prisoners who knew how to make paper, which was discovered in China at least 650 years earlier, were taken by the Arabs at the Talas River. Battle of Talas also led to the An-Lushan rebellion, which broke out in 755. This event paralyzed China for years and weakened the T'ang dynasty until it collapsed a century and a half later.
Another big one was Manzikert, fought in 1071. Alp Arslan's defeat of the Byzantines left Asia Minor open for him, and Europe probably felt the Byzantines were not capable of checking the Muslims, leading to the crusades.
Thanks Spartan JKM
Edited by Spartan
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Ahmed The Fighter
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Posted: 30-Aug-2005 at 05:31 |
Talas was not a decisive battle because the arab didn't take any advantage more the trade advantage,It had no effect in the balance of power and no big thing happened after it unless paper.
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"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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tadamson
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Posted: 30-Aug-2005 at 09:59 |
The only pre WW1 battle that affected most of the world (not the
Americas though), was in 1204 when Temuljin defeated the Naimen in a
three day battle involving over 200,000 cavalry on a front of some 30km.
This victoy gave him total control of the steppes and he was then elevated to Chinggis Khan. (you may have heard of him).
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rgds.
Tom..
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ok ge
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Posted: 30-Aug-2005 at 13:07 |
Well, my measurement of decisive battles is their effect or aftermath. At the battle of Talas, nothing really was of a drastic change right away after the battle. But its effect later proved to be a huge change to the world for the coming thousand years.
As Spartan mentioned, without Paper discovery which happened at Talas, no Baghdad library would have been built or Cordoba library would have flourished with over 200,000 book. Paper has changed the world and elevated the Islamic civilization to be the leader for another 700 years at least.
Second, most turkic tribes became Muslim gradually as Muslim dominated the trade routes and that geographical area. From the depth of those steppe, came the ancestors of Seljuks and the Ottoman empires, who are one of the greatest empires in history.
P.S: 150,000 Muslim soldiers Against 30,000 Chinese soldiers. that is 5 times actually. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/b/ba/battle_of _talas.htm
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D.J. Kaufman
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HulaguHan
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Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 00:09 |
^cok gec....
Please check your facts. After Talas, door of islam did not open to Central Asia. Probably you were educated in Turkey as far as I can see.
The problem comes with a misinterpretation of Barthold' s papers. Talas removed the Turkic and Chinese peril from Transoxianna (Maveraunnehir) which is Iranic Central Asia.
Even after 400 years later than Talas, Karluk Turks were still Nestorian Christians.
Conversion of Turks to Islam is just happened with the massive missionaries and Satuk Bugra Khans decisions. Turkic embracements started in 900s... These little clans/subclans immigrated to Persia, later they will establish the Ghaznawid Empire.
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Ahmed The Fighter
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Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 04:23 |
I saw the link it is full mistake the result in the link says Ummayyad decisive victory in fact it is Abbasid not Umayyad victory.
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"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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poirot
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Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 13:29 |
Originally posted by ok ge
Greatest battle is the battle of Talas, where Muslim troops defeated the Chinese Army and their allies.
Result: Opened the door of Islam to Central Asia, Hence!! Turkic tribes became Muslim, hence!! they build their current glory history. From nomadic steppe grazing tribes to Seljuks & Ottoman empires.
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I have always wondered why people make such a great deal with Talas. Talas had no bearing on the Chinese withdrawal from Central Asia. The Tang Army had around 300,000 border troops, but only 30,000 were used at Talas. The Korean general who commanded the army at Talas was never demoted, thus showing the relative little importance of the battle. The Tang Empire retained its garrisons in Central Asia and East Turkestan after Talas.
It was the Anlushan Rebellon in A.D.753, two years after Talas, by 150,000 border troops, and the subsequent civil war and warlord struggle that prevented the Tang Empire from logistically maintaining its garrisons in Central Asia and East Turkestan, and many of them fell to Tubo.
Edited by poirot
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AAAAAAAAAA
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poirot
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Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 13:36 |
Originally posted by Spartan
Battle of Talas also led to the An-Lushan rebellion, which broke out in 755. This event paralyzed China for years and weakened the T'ang dynasty until it collapsed a century and a half later.
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How did Talas lead to the Anlushan Rebellion? Anlushan planned his rebellion for years. He was stationed in modern day Peking, while Talas took place in Central Asia. Anlushan harbored rebellious intentions way before Talas.
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AAAAAAAAAA
"The crisis of yesterday is the joke of tomorrow.� ~ HG Wells
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Alkiviades
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Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 17:28 |
I think Spartan said it all... A couple of very good posts mate. Much better than
just argueing if "your nation's" battle was "the best", like most
others do...
Edited by Alkiviades
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ok ge
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Posted: 05-Sep-2005 at 22:49 |
Originally posted by poirot
I have always wondered why people make such a great deal with Talas. Talas had no bearing on the Chinese withdrawal from Central Asia. The Tang Army had around 300,000 border troops, but only 30,000 were used at Talas. The Korean general who commanded the army at Talas was never demoted, thus showing the relative little importance of the battle. The Tang Empire retained its garrisons in Central Asia and East Turkestan after Talas.
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Hmm, if we cannot agree on its military importance which can be easily disputed, can we agree that it is important for its aftermath effect? If Paper didn't come with Talas, imagine how many centuries we need to transfer this valuable discovery from Baghdad to Andalucia and to Europe?
Originally posted by Ahmed the Fighter
I saw the link it is full mistake the result in the link says Ummayyad decisive victory in fact it is Abbasid not Umayyad victory
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Maybe Wikipedia has some mistakes here. I just noticed because Ummayed empire lasted from 661 AD to 750 AD. Very interesting. Thanx for bringing this up.
Originally posted by HulaguHan
Probably you were educated in Turkey as far as I can see.`
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Nope! I didn't study in Turkiye or in Turkish. I'm not even a turk
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D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
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BlackRaven135
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 21:53 |
I think that to answer which battle is the most decisive in all of history is almost too much to explain. There are so many decisive battles that changed the course of history. Anyway, here is one that I know was so decisive that it pretty much ended a war.
I'm talking about Dien Bien Phu! This one battle was the end for the French in Vietnam. Not only did it end a war, moreover, it ended a colonial era for France.
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Timotheus
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Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 00:46 |
Is it really necessitate to pick one?
In that case, I would say the Battle of Megiddo (609 BC) where King Josiah of Judah was defeated by Pharoah Necho II of Egypt, preventing Necho from reinforcing Ashur-uballit II of Assyria, so that when the Egyptian and Assyrian armies converged at Carchemish, they had to face the full army of Babylonia's Nebuchadrezzar II, and were utterly defeated, giving rise to Neo-Babylonia, obliterating Assyria, and eliminating Egypt as a power in the Middle East. From there, if you know your Biblical history well enough, the sequence of events turned, from Babylon to Medo-Persia to Alexander and the Ptolemies to the Maccabees and Rome, in that had this battle not taken place, Christianity would not exist today. Face it, you can't find any single idea that has influenced the world more than Christianity.
So there you have it, my little idea.
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Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 12:44 |
In my opinion, the most decisive battle in whole history is the battle of Metaurus. This battle is decisive for Europe destiny and very interesting for risky tactics of a great forgotten man, the consul Claudius Nero.
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BigL
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Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 18:54 |
In my opinion the Battle of Homs 1281 stopped mongolian expansion westward into syria and egypt , and prevented the mongols from complete World Domination
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Barbarroja
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Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 07:55 |
In my opinion Stalingrad and after, Trafalgar, Rocroi and Actium
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I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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