Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Murph
Consul
Joined: 28-Nov-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 319
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Would you Vote? Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 21:30 |
if you were an iraqi civilian, would you vote in the upcoming election?
now, i realize many of you will proudly say "yes, people have died to give me my democratic right and i must excercise it".
but consider the very high risk of voting. are you truly willing to die for your right to vote?
personally, i don't think i would risk my life to vote if i was an iraqi
|
|
dark_one
Baron
Joined: 04-Sep-2004
Location: Russian Federation
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 454
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 21:50 |
No, I would be fighting America or dead from doing so. No offence
to Americans here but I would fight anyone who occupied my country.
|
|
Genghis
Caliph
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2656
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 21:57 |
No, but I did vote for Bush.
|
Member of IAEA
|
|
Murph
Consul
Joined: 28-Nov-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 319
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 21:57 |
or you could go elect a leader that would hurry the end of
American military presence...and even voting in Iraq has to be safer
than trying to fight the American army.
i dont really want to get this thread off-topic though. there are
plenty of threads about the Iraq war and American occupation, but i
want this one to stick to whether or not you would vote.
|
|
Christscrusader
Baron
Joined: 13-Nov-2004
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 481
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 23:57 |
Originally posted by dark_one
but I would fight anyone who occupied my country. |
Ha, you forget. AMerica wants to get the hell OUTA Iraq. You think America wants its citizens dieing everyday, and wasting billions of dollars?
|
Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
|
|
Seko
Emperor
Spammer
Joined: 01-Sep-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8595
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Jan-2005 at 13:06 |
Plato, the Republic, criticizes democracy for its tendency to bring forth demagogues who play to appetites of the people. His student, Aristotle, warned in book VIII of the Politics, that democracies are inimicable to private property as the majority, led on by demagogues, will vote to take away the property of the more productive and wealthier citizens.
The vote in Iraq is a unique event created from the outside to establish democracy on the inside. The potential for establishing a form of democratic rule is alive. The process has many faults in that country. People are fearful to vote. Certain groups of nationalities have moved themselves into various localities in order to bring a majority vote into that area. Rebellion is rampant. And American reliability is put into question.
Now that that is said, Iraqies may have a say in running their own government. This notion bothers many Arab countries, as it jeopordizes the monopoly that those dicatorships/demagoques have on their own power.
The road to such elections were created with falsifications and lies to world opnion. American interests were the main harbringer of the current state of affairs. One could only hope the best for the Iraqies.
|
|
vagabond
Colonel
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 524
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Jan-2005 at 18:54 |
In my present circmstances, sitting here comfortably - I would say yes - but if I lived in Iraq - had seven children, a wife, and perhaps parents or in-laws depending on me for their survival - I would probably think differently about it. It is very easy, as Murph said, for those on the outside to looki at the situation and asy that people there should vote. It's another thing entirely to be faced with those decisions first hand.
I admire the courage of those who do turn out and take the first step on the road to self determination.
|
In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
|
|
Murph
Consul
Joined: 28-Nov-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 319
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Jan-2005 at 19:31 |
well now it looks like about 60% of iraqis answered yes to this question and have voted.
unfortunately, other Iraqis answered yes to this question but were never able to cast their vote
|
|
azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer
Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Jan-2005 at 22:33 |
Originally posted by Christscrusader
Originally posted by dark_one
but I would fight anyone who occupied my country. |
Ha, you forget. AMerica wants to get the hell OUTA Iraq. You think America wants its citizens dieing everyday, and wasting billions of dollars?
|
well they will get everything they "WASTED" from Iraqi Oil in the comming Century.
also i dont think that the US government care alot about its Citizens in the army
|
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 08:08 |
Originally posted by azimuth
also i dont think that the US government care alot about its Citizens in the army
|
citizens in the army?
If they're in the army they're no citizens any more
|
|
Murph
Consul
Joined: 28-Nov-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 319
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 16:37 |
Originally posted by MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli
Originally posted by azimuth
also i dont think that the US government care alot about its Citizens in the army
|
citizens in the army?
If they're in the army they're no citizens any more
|
not to mention that its just not true at all...
|
|
JanusRook
Sultan
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2419
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 17:13 |
not to mention that its just not true at all...
|
Actually, they are property of the government, and as Plessy v. Ferguson said, property has no rights by virtue of itself. Therefore soldiers aren't citizens.
|
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
|
|
Murph
Consul
Joined: 28-Nov-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 319
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 19:02 |
i was saying the fact that the US government doesn't care about its troops isnt true
it is true that soldiers aren't citizens, i'm not disagreeing with that
|
|
azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer
Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 22:44 |
Originally posted by JanusRook
Actually, they are property of the government, and as Plessy v. Ferguson said, property has no rights by virtue of itself. Therefore soldiers aren't citizens. |
i didnt know that.
what does it say in their passports? didnt it say that the holder of this passport is a Citizen of the United States of America?
so when they become citizens? when they retire?
Edited by azimuth
|
|
|
JanusRook
Sultan
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2419
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 23:41 |
Technically they are not citizens, they still retain all of their rights as citizens, voting, etc., because the government allows them these rights (they could take them away if they wanted.)
But to answer your question they become citizens again when their contract runs up.
|
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
|
|
Alparslan
Colonel
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 517
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 01:54 |
Originally posted by Murph
if you were an iraqi civilian, would you vote in the upcoming election?
now, i realize many of you will proudly say "yes, people have died to give me my democratic right and i must excercise it". |
Are you saying that USA came to Iraq to bring democracy? No !! They were looking for "weapons of mass destructions". To find them they have killed hundreds of thousands civilians but they realised that there was not "weapons of mass destructions" in Iraq. To undestand this masses have been destroyed. What is the IQ level of this behavior? How can we trust USA's future plans on Iraq?
Originally posted by Murph
but consider the very high risk of voting. are you truly willing to die for your right to vote?". |
I would prefer to fight instead of voting if I were an Iraqi.
Originally posted by Murph
and even voting in Iraq has to be safer than trying to fight the American army. |
If you want to fight it means that you are not searching for safer places..........
|
|
TheDiplomat
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1988
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 05:41 |
Originally posted by dark_one
No, I would be fighting America or dead from doing so. No offence to Americans here but I would fight anyone who occupied my country. |
Same spirit here
|
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!
|
|
Aristoteles
Samurai
Joined: 03-Jan-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 106
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 06:10 |
Controversial question... Although I would probably have signed for the resistance, if I lived in Iraq, to fight the invaders of my country, I can't say I would not vote.
It's fairly complicated issue this one and I can't give a precise answer.
I am all for democracy (the more democratic the better, is my motto) but this parody is definitely nothing close to "democracy". And democracy, when not a product from within, is bound to fail. Ever heard again the "democracy imposed by invaders"? I mean, this is ridiculous...
There is a simple solution to people who do not wish to govern themselves: give them ample education, free access to knowledge and a fairly high standard of living. Then, they'll not only be ready for democracy, but they'll establish it themselves.
Any other solution is not working.
|
|
Beylerbeyi
Chieftain
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Cuba
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1355
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 13:07 |
Here's some other news from Iraq:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/file_on_4/4216853.stm
'The BBC's File On 4 programme has learnt that out of over $20bn raised in oil revenues during US-led rule, the use of $8.8bn is unaccounted for.
...
One US company is accused of massively inflating its profits by setting up sham companies to send fake invoices which the coalition paid.
Others are alleged to have demanded dubious commissions which then came out of Iraqi funds.
Even some Coalition officials are said to have openly demanded bribes of up to $300,000 in cash.
File On 4 reporter Gerry Northam explained: "Many Iraqis are angry at the way the Coalition handled funds, particularly the money from their own oil, and especially where inexplicable amounts ended up in the hands of foreign businesses.'
So, back to the question, 'would I vote?'
Sure.
With my AK 47.
|
|
Tobodai
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Antarctica
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4310
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 21:30 |
I wouldnt be dumb enough to vote, I would be using the chaos and power vacuum to be running as a canidate! Sure thats even riskier, but the potential is far greater. I would run on a popular platform of Americans and foreign fighters out, catering to the base insticts of both sides, then once my ends where achieved I would put educated peopoe in my cabinet from every ethnic and religious background, then ruthlessly exterminate the fundamentalists in ways even their creul minds could not begin to imagine.
For stability and peace a choas torn nation like Iraq really needs someone as strong as Saddam was, but nicer to his people
|
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
|
|