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Would monarchy be good in America?

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Would monarchy be good in America?
    Posted: 09-Dec-2005 at 20:07

Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa

Monarchy would never work in the United States of America. What was the very system that the Americans rebelled against? It was the tyranny of monarchy. The whole American revolution was fought against it and that rebellion is the reason why the United States of America exists today.

And they say JK Rowling has a great imagination for Harry Potter, compared to the US polit bureau she's a positive beginner.

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 04:20

Originally posted by Mixcoatl

No
A monarchy is good nowhere. It's an undemocratic, illogical waste of money that does nothing exept causing scandals.

It sells newspapers. Attracts tourists. And it's better to have scandals about royalty than scandals about politicians.

It also gives you someone safe to have patriotic feelings about. Nobody can be accused of being unpatriotic if they attack Tony Blair, the way they often are for attacking Bush.

The last thing you want is some politician symbolising your country. That's why even republics like Germany and Israel insist on having a president who plays no part in day-tp-day political life - more or less as an elected monarch.

 

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 04:21
Originally posted by Paul

America's actually the closest western country to an absolute monarchy at the moment. No other country puts anything like so much power over the country in the hands of a single man. So in many ways a throwback to royal rule. The president also receives adulation by many closer to a king, certainly more than any prime minister or president of any other western country. He is also protected from the kind of criticism and confrontation from press and other politicians when in press conferences or those pseudo political debates candidates have.

I always tend to think of the US president as an elected temporary king.

Which corresponds to how the founding fathers, at least in the Federalist Papers, thought of him.

It's why Washington's critics called him 'King George'.

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 10:13
Originally posted by gcle2003

It sells newspapers. Attracts tourists. And it's better to have scandals about royalty than scandals about politicians.

Never seen any evidence whatsoever to support the claim the monarchy attracts tourists.

Would any tourist planning to come to London really change their mind if there was no queen.

1/2 the time she's not there anyway. The palaces could be opened up and people allowed to walk around them instead of standing outside. The guards could still change, they still do in other European countries where the monarchy is long gone.

 

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 15:40
Originally posted by Paul

Originally posted by gcle2003

It sells newspapers. Attracts tourists. And it's better to have scandals about royalty than scandals about politicians.

Never seen any evidence whatsoever to support the claim the monarchy attracts tourists.

Would any tourist planning to come to London really change their mind if there was no queen.

1/2 the time she's not there anyway. The palaces could be opened up and people allowed to walk around them instead of standing outside. The guards could still change, they still do in other European countries where the monarchy is long gone.

But people don't go look at the Elysee Palace the way they do to Buckingham Palace. Yes Americans in particular DO go to London (and Windsor and so on) because the Queen and her family live there. The way things are going, if Prince William marries or is crowned there'll be a positive surge. If he marries a good-looking American girl people will be fainting in the streets from the crowds.

Look what happened to Monaco tourism thanks to Princess Grace.

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  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 10:19

Monarchy is something that is way outdated. Nobility isnt something you are born with. Aside from that I dont see the point in monarchy unless they have power. from what i can see, its just a bunch of people who have been inbred.

 

Also, what is the point of the house of lords in britain?



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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 12:32
Originally posted by Loknar

Monarchy is something that is way outdated. Nobility isnt something you are born with. Aside from that I dont see the point in monarchy unless they have power. from what i can see, its just a bunch of people who have been inbred.

 

Also, what is the point of the house of lords in britain?

To stop the government doing whatever it likes.

Bit like the US Supreme Court is supposed to be.

 

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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 14:57

America's actually the closest western country to an absolute monarchy at the moment. No other country puts anything like so much power over the country in the hands of a single man. So in many ways a throwback to royal rule. The president also receives adulation by many closer to a king, certainly more than any prime minister or president of any other western country. He is also protected from the kind of criticism and confrontation from press and other politicians when in press conferences or those pseudo political debates candidates have.

I always tend to think of the US president as an elected temporary king.

I've read in a French source that the reason for this is when the American colonies rebelled, they copied the structure of the British government at the time (1770s). Which consisted of a monarch, the house of lords and the parliament, with powers similar to today's American system.

The difference was that being rebels, they elected their monarch (president) and the members of their house of lords (senate). America even has its coronation ceremony, where the president makes an inaugural speech with military parade etc.

In most other countries which rebelled against monarchy, there is no elected strong president, coronation ceremony or senate. Most of them keep a weak president, though.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 16:12
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

In most other countries which rebelled against monarchy, there is no elected strong president, coronation ceremony or senate.

That's not true, most, if not all, of Latin America (which rebelled against Spain) has strong presidents and senates.
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  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 16:29

I think it should also be pointed out that our constitution forbids the bestowment of titles of nobility on any person..

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 16:31
Originally posted by Loknar

I think it should also be pointed out that our constitution forbids the bestowment of titles of nobility on any person..

And yet you're very careful to refer to 'Senator so-nd-so' and 'Congressman this-and-that'.

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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 17:18

That's not true, most, if not all, of Latin America (which rebelled against Spain) has strong presidents and senates.

I mean the countries who rebelled against their own monarchies, unlike the colonies, who rebelled against mother countries, not necessarily against monarchy itself. 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 17:33
What about France then? or China for that matter?
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 18:07

What about France then? or China for that matter?

France was the original model, but it has the fifth republic now. Still, they don't have a senate.

China is Maoist, which is Stalinist, which is Leninist, which is some sort of Jacobin. Do they have a senate? An elected king/president? 

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  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 01:14
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Loknar

I think it should also be pointed out that our constitution forbids the bestowment of titles of nobility on any person..

And yet you're very careful to refer to 'Senator so-nd-so' and 'Congressman this-and-that'.

-Those arent really titles of nobility, rather political titles.

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 08:15
Originally posted by arch.buff

Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Loknar

I think it should also be pointed out that our constitution forbids the bestowment of titles of nobility on any person..

And yet you're very careful to refer to 'Senator so-nd-so' and 'Congressman this-and-that'.

-Those arent really titles of nobility, rather political titles.

A title of nobility isn't political?

Incidentally I should have added that people go on being called 'Senator' and so on even after they are no longer members, because they have been defeated or retired.

Calling someone a senator or whatever while he/she actually is one is more reasonable.

 

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  Quote lennel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 20:29

"The difference was that being rebels, they elected their monarch (president) and the members of their house of lords (senate). America even has its coronation ceremony, where the president makes an inaugural speech with military parade etc. "

we didnt direct elect senators until the early 20th cent.

 

"Incidentally I should have added that people go on being called 'Senator' and so on even after they are no longer members, because they have been defeated or retired.

Calling someone a senator or whatever while he/she actually is one is more reasonable."

I can agree to that...but at least we don't call senators son's "mr. senator"

 

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 20:38
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Paul

Originally posted by gcle2003

It sells newspapers. Attracts tourists. And it's better to have scandals about royalty than scandals about politicians.

Never seen any evidence whatsoever to support the claim the monarchy attracts tourists.

Would any tourist planning to come to London really change their mind if there was no queen.

1/2 the time she's not there anyway. The palaces could be opened up and people allowed to walk around them instead of standing outside. The guards could still change, they still do in other European countries where the monarchy is long gone.

But people don't go look at the Elysee Palace the way they do to Buckingham Palace.

I don't notice a shortage of wonder at Hampton court, Versailles or Fontainebleau, despite the lack of royalty.



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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 20:47
Originally posted by Paul

Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Paul

Originally posted by gcle2003

It sells newspapers. Attracts tourists. And it's better to have scandals about royalty than scandals about politicians.

Never seen any evidence whatsoever to support the claim the monarchy attracts tourists.

Would any tourist planning to come to London really change their mind if there was no queen.

1/2 the time she's not there anyway. The palaces could be opened up and people allowed to walk around them instead of standing outside. The guards could still change, they still do in other European countries where the monarchy is long gone.

But people don't go look at the Elysee Palace the way they do to Buckingham Palace.

I don't notice a shortage of wonder at Hampton court, Versailles or Fontainebleau, despite the lack of royalty.

I agree.  The astonishment at imperial-royal "digs" and what was considered usual for royalty still dazzles people.

Anyone who has visited Schoenbrunn, the Hermitage in St. Petersburg, the Nymphenburg in Munich or other "mini-Versailles" cannot help but be impressed.

Even non-royal rseidences such as Blenheim Palace or the Belvedere in Vienna are astonishing.

  



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