America's Political Transformation

Originally posted by opuslola Gee! TGS, it seems we have created something like a "firestorm?" Ain't it great? But, dear sir, it is you and your ilk that are deluded by false prophets! While I do not rememeber "herr doktor Beck" saying what you remember, I would not disagree! You must see, herr doktor must cultivate what ever plants that might grow from his fertilizer? chuckle!

Would you like me to remind you?

Here it is, Beck in his own words (Hes simply making money off of you, dont you realize this? Hes taking advantage of you. He will say whatever he has to to make money, and guess what, he is a MULTI-MILLIONAIRE because he screws over people like you):

http://www.indecisionforever.com/2009/08/14/jon-stewart-owns-glenn-beck-on-healthcare-hypocrisy/

Why did he switch so quickly? Maybe its because a black man is doing something no white man could, maybe Beck is racist? In his own words:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/fox-host-glenn-beck-obama_n_246310.html

With regards to the United States "having the best health care system in the world", here is the ranking by the World Health Organization (WHO):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHO%27s_ranking_of_health_care_systems

The US is ranked #37...

This is your precious Glenn Beck.

I'm trying to help you buddy.

Originally posted by opuslola But, for you to say that you are flummoxed?(sp) by my other posts, is remarkable! Your were actually confused by these words? "Originally posted by opuslola You must understand TGS, that just because the word "Progressive" contains the simple word "Progress" does not automatically prove that "reforms" or "government actions", will actually result in "Progress", any more than you can prove that "Regressive" policies, which does not receive a friendly definition in most cases, will result in "Regression!" You might well want to read this? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/regressive Just what would you determine is a "regressive tax?" as opposed to a "Progressive" one? I would support the theory that the Government of the USA, is more like a "cancer" than anything else! Thus, when ever a cancer progresses, the patient gets worse off, etc., but whenever one can force the cancer to regress, then the patient might well survive! Yes indeed, your progressive buddies may well increase the "severity" of the current situation, and lead the USA into a period of "paralysis?" Seriously! (Note that there is no chuckle or laugh here!) And, note that in our PC world, about the only time I can now use the word "Retard", is to describe actions designed to "retard" the growth / spread of government, or a cancer, or even a forest fire! Laugh!" I think that maybe you should re-read the above? And, take a deep breath, and think? Laugh! regards,

Youre argument gets more and more ridiculous every time, and you make the most ridiculous statements and connections that its hard to respond and its a waste of time to respond. Everytime I dissect and analyze one of youre "points" and expose its flaws you simply ignore my post and come up with something just as if not more ridiculous...

I can read, just read and respond to things that are worth the effort. Such as your above statement regarding Beck that I responded to.

By the way eaglecap! That was certainly a good photo of Dr. Savage and his famous dog! It is extremely noticable that his life raft is named "Patriot!" A good name!
If I am ever again in San Francisco, I think I will have to eat at one of his favorite Italian resturants! Maybe I'll get lucky and even meet Savage himself?

Regards,

By the way, do you know his real name? If so, please send it to me in a private message! We would not want the enemy to know it!

Just kidding!

Edited by opuslola - 27-Jan-2010 at 09:22

Originally posted by opuslola Dear TGS, you posted this site as a refutation of Beck; http://www.indecisionforever.com/2009/08/14/jon-stewart-owns-glenn-beck-on-healthcare-hypocrisy/ I don't know, but it seems the name of this site is really "Comedy Central!" And I know "comedy" when I see it! Laugh!

So you are saying that the Daily Show made up those clips? Those are actual clips of Glenn Beck, how can you deny this? And for the record, the Daily Show is an award winning program and Jon Stewart is a very intelligent man who some consider to be the most reliable news anchor in America.

Originally posted by opuslola And you go on and post this site; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/fox-host-glenn-beck-obama_n_246310.html Number one, in case you didn't know, Huffington, was a few years ago, a raging right-wing pundit! But, suddenly it seems she had a life altering experience of some sort (Maybe she was visited by the Angel of Death?), and made a 180 degree turn in her political stance!

I do not care what huffington did, thats simply where the clip is stored and that does not change the content of the clip.

Originally posted by opuslola And, what indeed is wrong with what Beck said? Was it based upon anything that has some fact behind it? Does he not have the right to express his opinion? Certainly African Americans casually bandy around the word "racist" at every opportunity!

So Beck can call Obama a racist who hates white people or white culture without any proof or without any provocation? He can just say that and he is being sincere with no political or racist intentions of his own? Oh come on! He obviously said that for a reason, what the hell has Obama done to white people? Maybe its because hes a "Muslim"

Originally posted by opuslola It seems that if you on the left cannot defeat the "message" your response is to "slay the messenger!" Demean his religious beliefs (but you do not belittle the religious beliefs of our Commander in Chief, when he stayed a member (for 20 years) of an obviously deranged pastor in Chicago, who regularly made racist comments from the pulpit! I never saw Obama refer to his "religious champion" as a "racist?" But, he merely distanced himself from the situation, by it appears, forgoing to attend any church services while President! Certainly a first for the Presidency!

Slay the messenger? Beck is not a messenger, he makes up his own propaganda and fools people into paying him for it. He has become a millionaire since he started this, he has no message other than fear mongering, greed, and to make himself wealthy.

Originally posted by opuslola And the last site you gave me; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHO%27s_ranking_of_health_care_systems This is of course a United Nations operation, an organization of USA haters, and buffoons, and dictators, for the most part! I certainly feel that most of the people in the USA have little or no respect for the UN! I know I do not! Mostly it seems they manage to bungle almost every time they are forced into taking some action!

WOW I'm simply absolutely shocked by this statement.

Originally posted by opuslola And, I feel that this answer is so obvious to anyone who cares to look, if American health care is so bad, they why do world leaders, come to the USA by the hundreds for their medical care? "Splain that to me Lucy?" No, I am not calling you "Lucy", but merely using that little phrase as a comedic interlude, it was one of the favorite expression of "Ricky Recardo (Desi Arnez)" to "Lucile Ball" (Lucy Recardo) on a well known comedy TV show. Desi had a thick Cuban accent, and thus "explain" came out "splain!" Laugh!

Which world leaders? Please name them. Again, you cannot, because most world leaders get better health care in their countries then they would in the United States.

Originally posted by opuslola Wait a minute, that was not shown on "Comedy Central", was it? Laugh! Regards,

Are you talking about the Daily Show or the Comedy Central tv channel? If you are talking about the Daily Show, its more factual than Fox News, thats for certain. If you are talking about Comedy Central the channel, then I have to admit, Fox News is a lot more hilarious.

Originally posted by opuslola And TGS, I asked this question earlier; "Just what would you determine is a "Regressive tax?" as opposed to a "Progressive" one?" Do you have a reply? I consider all taxes as somewhat, "Regressive!"

Yes, I do. Progressive tax puts more of the burden on wealthier citizens, while regressive tax puts more of the burden the poor.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 27-Jan-2010 at 11:00

Originally posted by opuslola It seems that it would be best if we just agree to disagree!

I will not agree to disagree because this is the future of our country. I want to see the United States continue to lead the world technologically and economically and continue to prosper. I dont not want to see this country be destroyed by destroyed.

Originally posted by opuslola Thus I will leave you with this, the acceptance speech of FDR, in 1932; The below is from Wiki! "In his acceptance speech, Roosevelt declared: 'Throughout the nation men and women, forgotten in the political philosophy of the Government, look to us here for guidance and for more equitable opportunity to share in the distribution of national wealth... I pledge you, I pledge myself to a new deal for the American people... This is more than a political campaign. It is a call to arms.' The election campaign was conducted under the shadow of the Great Depression in the United States, and the new alliances which it created. Roosevelt and the Democratic Party mobilized the expanded ranks of the poor as well as organized labor, ethnic minorities, urbanites, and Southern whites, crafting the New Deal coalition. During the campaign, Roosevelt said: 'I pledge you, I pledge myself, to a new deal for the American people', coining a slogan that was later adopted for his legislative program as well as his new coalition." It seems strangly similar to todays times, does it not? E.g., New Deal V. change! The redistribution of wealth, recession V. depression, bank failures, creation of new departments, etc.? C'est bon! Regarde' vous!

Are you serious? Do you know what social security is? You probably use it (if you are as old as you claim to be). Also, do you know what medicaid and medicare are?

SOCIAL SECURITY WAS PASSED AS A PART OF THE NEW DEAL. You obviously have no idea what FDR even did during his presidency...

Medicare and Medicaid were also passed despite Republican's trying to stop the democrats, and now today no one, not even Glenn Beck, would say that we should get rid of Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid unless they're insane.

This is what I'm talking about, its impossible to debate with someone who has no idea what they're talking about.... Glenn Beck loves people like you, hell, you've made him a millionaire, congratulations, what has he done for you in return?

And regarding Glenn Becks flip flop, he changed his mind in just 16 months! What happened in those 16 months that the US health care system went from being horrible (his own opinion) to it all of a sudden becoming the "best" in the world?

Huffington changed her opinion after many years, when she became disillusioned with her previous beliefs, not a year and four months.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 27-Jan-2010 at 16:13

Originally posted by opuslola You can stop your "ranting" anytime! Laugh!

I'm ranting?

Originally posted by opuslola Also, as weird as it sounds, I am not qualified for SS! Funny huh?

Why not?

Sorry Simba I have not had the time to reply but I suggest reading this and no offense meant by it at all.

I have seen a number of liberals become more conservative after listening him on the radio or reading one of this books. I read material from both sides and even listen to Stephany Miller or use to, cannot find her station here in S. Arizona. I moved here from Washington State

Are you American and living in the USA?

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba Opuslola, you are contributing absolutely nothing to this thread, please stop. Originally posted by eaglecap Sorry Simba I have not had the time to reply but I suggest reading this and no offense meant by it at all. I have seen a number of liberals become more conservative after listening him on the radio or reading one of this books. I read material from both sides and even listen to Stephany Miller or use to, cannot find her station here in S. Arizona. I moved here from Washington State Are you American and living in the USA? Yes, I am American and I am currently in the United States.Savage is a brute. He is racist, homophobic, and a fascist. He has made calls for mass murder for example... He is not someone that I would ever use as an example of my political leanings or beliefs...And I'm not just saying this to attack him. He has said racist things about Muslims, for example, and even called for 100 million of them to be killed. Thats just one example. He is also defender of "English only" policies as well as "defending American" culture. These are both xenophobic, racist, and ignorant, as America has always been multi-lingual, as well as multi cultural. Infact, American culture is simply a mix of many different cultures.Sure, the guy, just like Limbaugh and Beck, plays on peoples fears and nationalism...thats why what he says resonates with some people, but in reality, they are over exaggerating many of the things they talk about.Savage's bias is evident, I know he hates liberalism and I'm pretty sure I know what he says in that book.

Simba you are entitled to your views and it is your 1st Amendment right to tear into Savage. But, I do not agree and for many, many Americans he is a true Patriot. He does not call for mass murder so stop taking him out of context. The progressives or what I call the neo commies takes everything he says out of context, which is easy to do. So, what you are saying is out of context and I have never learned to hate anyone from listening to him.

100 million Muslims to be killed -try showing the whole context and you will find once again the left and even some Republican neo cons have taken him out of context(groups like CAIR also). He was referring to the radicals who would destroy an American city. If they bomb an American city and kill thousands and we know the source then we have the right to retaliate. I hope this never happens. I listen to his show most everyday and you are so wrong.

I do not support English only since I recognize the Native American languages but other than that people need to learn English to improve their chances to advance, that is what I teach. I don't agree with all he stands for but about 85%. We are a melting pot so when someone immigrates to the USA their goal shoud be to become American, no matter what race, religion or ethnic group they are. I encourage the immigrants I work with to teach their children their language and culture. But, we are one culture and one people- Americans!! Their culture contributes to the greater culture or melting pot. Once again whenever someone brings up the race card it makes me wonder if they are not a racist, I say this in general.

Now the Muslims who live in America and work to overthrow our great Bill of Rights and Constitution and replace it with Sharia law then I consider them traitors. Same goes with the neo-cons and so-called progressives who want to erase to override of even erase it. I welcome Muslims here if they believe in pluralism and the foundations of our nation. If they are willing to accept gays, Jews and other groups as their equals. I am not a fan of homosexuality but I treat them with respect, I lived with gays in Walla Walla, WA. Funny, talk about homophobic!! Do you know that almost every Muslim I have met in person told me that gays should be killed. Not all of them but most said this and don't forget I spent time in Turkiye, which tended to be more open minded. Michael Savage does not care about what people do in the privacy of their homes but, like me, he is against the attack on marriage or forcing this choice on others. I have seen what the school districts allow in some states and I oppose it. You are free to believe what you want and I spent more time on this then I have.
PS
I am not a fan of Rush who is a Bush apologist in my opinion and Glen Beck I rarely listen to him. The Roth show, NPR, and coast to coast am are the usual shows for me. I am also a Robert Spencer fan and agree with him and I know some people also take him out of context, like
CAIR.
Must rush off so good day to you and best regards eaglecap

Curious: are you native born American or an immigrant and from where?
My grandparents on my mother's side were from Greece but my father’s side has been here since the creation of this great nation. I am very multi ethnic so I was exposed to both worlds. This include native American ancestry as well.

added later:

Speaking of tolerance - do you accept this?

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=28325

Edited by eaglecap - 30-Jan-2010 at 13:02

Out of context? Really? Where here you go, here is a transcript:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You still do not have the whole transcript and it is still easy to take it out of context. He was speaking about the radical Muslims and if they nuked an American city. While I do not agree with all he says, he was not advocating killing 100 million Muslims but more of a reaction to what if….
If you only show a portion of what he says then it is easy to blow it out of proportion. Cult groups like the Mormons do the same thing with the Bible. They only show a tiny verse and not the whole context and twist it to their own doctrine. I am not religious but I believe there is a God and I am very liberal when it comes to religion, as long as the religion is peaceful. I don’t doubt you do research but we see things from different perspective. I am not trying to change your views but only expressing mine.

In 2004, Savage stated "I think (Muslims) need to be forcibly converted to Christianity ... It's the only thing that can probably turn them into human beings." In 2006, he called for a ban on Muslim immigration and recommended making "the construction of mosques illegal in America." Also that year, he advocated "kill(ing) 100 million" Muslims.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Savage is not a Christian and is very universal about his beliefs.
I of course do not agree with him here but I did not hear the show so I am not sure about the entire context of what he said From what I do see I condemn it but I would have to go online to pick up this old show.   I don’t agree on an outright ban, I have many Muslim friends in Turkiye. We need to know who is coming into our country and their background must be checked. If they believe in replacing our constitution or Bill of Rights with Sharia law or support terrorism then they should not be allowed to immigrate here.

The Russians are another example! I know many Russians and Ukrainians immigrated here as Christian refugees but some lied about this status and are involved in organized crime. They should have never been allowed to immigrate here and once they are arrested for any violent crime they should do their time and then be deported back to Russia. I gave this as an example to show I am not picking only on Muslims.

What constitutes "American"? What is you're definition?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I would suggest reading the politically Incorrect Guide to American History. I will fight to defend the constitution as it was written by our founding fathers. If you don’t understand this then try picking up some non-revision American history and learn. We have many Mexican in my area and I know a lot who feel the same way I do about our constitution. But, point taken and with unchecked illegal and legal immigration the political landscape will change. I support outright reduction of immigration for largely environmental reasons- see Frosty Woolridge and do some research. With unchecked immigration we are heading into an environmental nightmare.

So do I, but who are these Muslims and how many of them are there?
That is a good question and nobody knows or can one really presume this and condemn all Muslims for the few amongst them. Muslims can lie to the infidel and if you want I can give you examples out of the Qur’an and the Hadith. I don’t have the material with me but “The Truth about Muhammad is one source."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

You cannot really tell who is who until they take action and call for Sharia law like the head of CAIR Hooper has, a Muslim convert. Until then I treat them with the same respect I do everyone and don’t assume the worse. We still need to Intelligence to prevent terrorist attacks like Fort Hood and we must act on this intelligence unlike Fort Hood.

Several issues I want to address regarding your above statements.

a) The evangelical movement in this nation is vehemently anti-homosexual, on the same level if not more radical than other religious groups in the world.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

That is their First amendment right as a religion and I frankly believe it is a perverse life and very unhealthy. Look at the stats about the average life expectancy of homosexuals. I really don’t care what adults do as long as they keep it to themselves and don’t spread disease, this goes for heterosexuals as well. Homosexuality is treated much worse in the Muslims world! Most Christians I know believe that they should love the sinner but hate the sin and I have never heard a genuine Christians talk about killing them. I am sure there are a few exception but that would be a tiny percentage of Christians. The Roman Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Mormons also oppose the act of homosexuality so why pick only on the Evangelicals. Part of my upbringing was Greek Orthodox, don’t forget I am half Greek.
Homosexuality is a death sentence under strict Sharia law:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAW743OXC8o



b) Do you know how many racist "White American" groups there are in this nation that do not accept gays, Jews, and other groups as equals? Lets kick them out huh? But wait, we cant because the Constitution guarantee's freedom of thought and expression, so you just contradicted yourself...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The evil white man! NO I did not contradict myself and you are taking my statement out of context. Hey I have a news flash for you my friend- whites are not only racist in this country.
Don’t forget about hate groups like La Raza (the race) or black panthers. Whites are not the only racist so stop with the race card. It makes me wonder if you are a racist against Anglo whites, Anglo is really a general term. Do the vast majority of white Americans believe this? Are you accusing the majority of white people of being racist? Why do you dislike white people? – seems like this stereo typing is treating them unequally.   

By the way the women I am dating is half Mexican and half Native American so please stop with the race card. I have gone into Mexico, with a groups, to provide food clothing and building material. I have helped build a home for a Mexican family in Mazatlan so please don’t confuse me a white man with these evil white supremist groups.
My mother was born in the USA but returned to Greece with her parents when she was still an infant. She returned to America at the age of eight and had to learn English and believe me the Greeks were discriminated against back then, I heard the stories. My philosphy is to treat all strangers with repect and hospiltality and this means all.

c) who is forcing gay marriage on other? Thats a ridiculous statement! Gay marriage is not meant to force non-gays into marrying people of the same sex...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I did not mean that and even gays would oppose this my friend!
No but many school districts are,without parental consent, teaching it as an alternative lifestyle, no matter what the parents think. If you go online and search you will find these articles but that is up to you.

d) what do schools teach that you have a problem with? I would like examples...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Look on the internet but if an article comes up I will post it.   It is a very unhealthy choice and should not be promoted. The only thing kids should be taught is that it is a reality and some of the dangers of being gay. I would agree that because it is a reality children should learn to respect them as humans and love them but no necessarily their actions. I oppose any violence towards gays or anyone but I have been around gays enough to know they can also be intolerant towards each other and some are outright racist. What is new in the human condition? I lived with gays for a year and a half and if someone had threatened them I would have fought for them. I remember at college that some gays were not tolerant towards bi-sexual and thought they were not truly gay. They wanted to exclude them from their meeting at the college. Most in the groups, I was told, did not support this though.

This is only my opinion and in no way do I even care to change yours but this only goes in circles so I will not reply. I would rather talk about history but I will monitor this so everyone behaves, so far so good. It is good to have two extreme opinions because sometimes compromise will come out of it.

Front page- that is your opinion- I do not agree!

By the way I have known numerous Iranians and Iranian Americans and have enjoyed their friendships. Being Greek I am sure there is some genetic connection with Persians.

With all respect we can agree to disagree- reply but from this point I am only monitoring this thread. If you want to join me in a thread about ancient Greek- Persian contact in history I would enjoy this. Any ideas?



Edited by eaglecap - 01-Feb-2010 at 13:35

This only goes in circles and if you really want to know search yourself. If I come across an article I will post it. I have worked for two school districts so I see what goes on. The thing is even if I post an article you will discount it as conservative. My sister is a liberal and just like you, we avoid politics.

If I can find the time I will try and find the sources where I got my information from but I really don't want to take the time to back track and locate them. I also take it serious and what I have written was based on multiple sources I have read in the past. I am not religious but one source about the school district comes from the American Family Association.

The only thing I can say about immigrants is when in Rome do as the Romans do.

Part of the problem is with work I have other priorities and I can only do so much without overloading so it is not that I don't but time is limited.

For now we can agree to disagree- we only go in circles. I want to move to a historical topic


Edited by eaglecap - 02-Feb-2010 at 11:16

Maybe you have lots of free time to sit around and do this but I don't so it is no cop out!!
I want to discontinue this due to several projects I am working on but I wanted to at least honor your request Simba.
Here are some links that demonstrate how students are exposed to this sexual choice regardless of how they believe.   The parents and legal guardians have every legal right to opt out if they so choose. If you are anything like my dear liberal sister then I am sure you will discount any conservative source as bias, maybe I am wrong!!

for some reason it won't allow me to link it so maybe later

http://www.newswithviews.com/public_schools/public_schools1.htm

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=20157

http://www.tldm.org/News9/homosexualityStudentsSueCollege.htm

So now you say what is so wrong with it- read. I found this in minutes so if you are opened minded then I suggest you look more.   In my opinion liberals and religious people are the most closed minded people.

http://www.ccv.org/downloads/pdf/Legal_Liability_of_Homosexuality_Education.pdf

when I get time I will reread all the posts on here and try and answer you in more deatail. Now darn did you say your roots are from Iran or Bosnia? I will have to recheck, so many locations on allempires.
People here



Edited by eaglecap - 03-Feb-2010 at 14:19