Communism or Capitalism

Originally posted by edgewaters Communism is, actually, pretty good at educating populations , deterring crime (almost nonexistant in the old Soviet Union, except for a black market in things like fresh butter and Levis jeans), and taking agrarian economies to an industrial phase. But once it gets there, it starts to stagnate. Employment does actually tend to be high in communist economies, the working class does do fairly well - the problem is that it doesn't tend to develop much of a consumerist middle class.

So in other words, communism is useful in building up a country, but capitialism is more useful once you've got there? Is it just me or does that sound a lot like the middle kingdom?

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Originally posted by red clay    The Communists claim that they liberated the Russian people. Yet, when the Great Patriotic War began, these same Russians greeted their foreign invaders with tears, with flowers and with enthusiastic hospitality. What can have brought them to the point at which they would greet even Hitler as their saviour and liberator? -Viktor Suvorov Reading too much fascist propaganda have you? Those same Russians defeated Nazi Germany, for the loss of, oh, 20 million men.

 

      I am well aware of that, however it is a fact, not propaganda, when the Nazis entered the Ukraine and western regions of soviet union they were at first welcomed as liberators.  If they had been smart enough to have taken advantage of this they would possibly have won the war,  but with the Nazi superior race crap, they blew it.

Originally posted by Leonidas making sure that you cant get tooo rich

So, when I'm an engineer and say I develop something really useful, you're going to tell me I can't make too much money off of it?

If you make your money legally, then no one has the right to say you're too rich.  How can you morally justify taking my money because I happened to be a shrewd investor or a gifted designer.

Or what if I'm a musician and I become incredibly popular?  How would taking my money be justified?  Some of the greatest crimes this century have been committed using the rationale "some people have too much money".

Edited by Genghis

Deterring crime has nothing to do with communism itself.  Crime deterence is caused by utilizing harsh punishments for offenders and giving the police greater search and seizure powers.  The USA (under capitalism) could theoretically adopt these policies and have the same results.  Communism has nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by R_AK47 Deterring crime has nothing to do with communism itself.� Crime deterence is caused by utilizing harsh punishments for offenders and giving the police greater search and seizure powers.� The USA (under capitalism) could theoretically adopt these policies and have the same results.� Communism has nothing to do with it.

That's only partially true. Communism was a different system - there were fewer destitute people, and the average level of education was higher. As mentioned, the incarceration rate and average duration of sentences in the US was much higher than in the Soviet Union by the 80s, so it is not so much a matter of tougher enforcement.

Originally posted by Kalevipoeg The education wasn't much worse or any. Why really should it have been. Only you would have to study "history", not history. The amazing achievements of the the Soviet Union in EVERY damn field possible. The eternal desire of peace that the USSR so ever wanted was always blocked by imperialist warmongering.

That sounds like it would get old very fast

Originally posted by Kalevipoeg "free unity of all the bretherin nations of the USSR"

Wow, there are too many inherent lies in that statement to count.

Originally posted by Kalevipoeg The education wasn't much worse or any. Why really should it have been. Only you would have to study "history", not history. The amazing achievements of the the Soviet Union in EVERY damn field possible. The eternal desire of peace that the USSR so ever wanted was always blocked by imperialist warmongering.

It was the Cold War ... you can argue vice-versa about the superpowers as far as warmongering goes. "The eternal desire of peace that the USA so ever wanted was always blocked by communist warmongering," etc. Most of it works both ways and it was more a product of the Cold War itself, than with the political systems of the combatants.

As far as Soviet achievements, there were indeed many. They made alot of advances in physics and chemistry (check the names on your periodic table), and quite a few in the applied sciences and engineering. The Soviets were able to direct alot of the economy towards research in expensive advances that would have little immediate commercial benefit, but were still crucial to technological advancement. On the other hand, elements that were left neglected by the planners suffered a great deal (eg computers, which the planners felt had only limited potential).

I am not discrediting any achievments of the Russian or Soviet culture and science, they were indeed great. But at the same time also greatly overrated in the eyes of the USSR public. US sucks too, but why get aggitated about my truthful statement? It is not like i am making the US look great and USSR not due to prejudice.

We all know whom you love and who you hate. I have never seen you rush to attack Americans with sarcastic comments, something you do whenever you can when USSR is the subject. So your claims of neutrality are a joke.

Please stop pretending to be anti-American or left-wing, and show your real face.

Originally posted by Spartakus Both.Communism with limited Capitalism.

Both.Capitalism with limited Communism.