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Apples n Oranges
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Topic: Your Nations Psyche Posted: 09-Apr-2006 at 08:17 |
I would like to know the view of fellow members on this issue.How would you describe the psyche of your nation,in a paragraph or two.Let us limit the time frame to a century.Fifty years ago,now and fifty years from now.Do you think there has been any fundamental change in your Nation's psyche over the past fifty years.
Which nations resemble your nation in this regard & which nations are your nation turned upside down.I would request members to limit their description to one nation in the beginning even if they are citizens of more than one nation.
Members who do not believe in the existense of Nations may also participate.
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Maju
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Posted: 09-Apr-2006 at 14:06 |
I think that archetypically Basque people can be defined by the archetypical sepherd that lives a pretty much solitary life, possibly with his family, in his baserri at the mountains: reserved, honest, jealous of his little posessions and liberty yet solidarious, hardworking (not me ), likes to play handball and rural sports, dancing in the holidays at the yelling sound of trikitixa (a high pitched acordeon). Fisherman and burgueois also make part of more specialized or evolved Basque archetypes, but after the artzain or sepherd, maybe the best allegory is that of the coal-maker, like the Olentzero (a Basque Santa Claus that likes to eat and drink and smoke in his pipe) or the one depicted in the classical film Tasio (based in a real life). Basques maybe industrious but also like to gamble, specially in the so popular traditional sports. Like lifting stones.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Apples n Oranges
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Posted: 10-Apr-2006 at 10:35 |
Thanks for the description of Basque people Maju.In what ways would you say their Psyche has changed/evolved over the past 50 years.
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Maju
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Posted: 10-Apr-2006 at 11:12 |
I think that in the late Middle Ages and early Modernity, Basques were assimilated by Christianity and that made them much more like the rest. But the main transition surely happens in the 19th century, when our liberties are crushed by the "liberals" (jacobines) and we are actually split in two. In this moment the inner regions lose importance in benefit of the coastal regions, specially Bilbao (in the north Baiona actually loses importance, lost its Navarrese market). There's a process of industralization and many people arrives in all the 20th century from other countries, speaking primarily other languages.
The last 50 years have been a struggle for recovery of identity and freedom - but seems pretty much doomed, despite the many efforts.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Odin
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Posted: 13-Apr-2006 at 00:56 |
You're Basque, Maju? So that explains your knowledge about them!
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"Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now."
-Arnold J. Toynbee
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Paul
General
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Posted: 13-Apr-2006 at 01:22 |
Originally posted by Maju
I think that in the late Middle Ages and early Modernity, Basques were assimilated by Christianity and that made them much more like the rest. But the main transition surely happens in the 19th century, when our liberties are crushed by the "liberals" (jacobines) and we are actually split in two. In this moment the inner regions lose importance in benefit of the coastal regions, specially Bilbao (in the north Baiona actually loses importance, lost its Navarrese market). There's a process of industralization and many people arrives in all the 20th century from other countries, speaking primarily other languages.
The last 50 years have been a struggle for recovery of identity and freedom - but seems pretty much doomed, despite the many efforts.
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Well the IRA died.
And as one former nationalist said. Does a nationalist struggle have any relavance whatsoever in these days when we are all members of a European Union?
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Apples n Oranges
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Posted: 13-Apr-2006 at 06:14 |
Originally posted by Paul
Well the IRA died.
And as one former nationalist said. Does a nationalist struggle have any relavance whatsoever in these days when we are all members of a European Union? |
Assuming you consider EU your nation Paul,how would you describe the Psyche of EU in present times and in which direction do you see it evolving during the next 50 years.
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Mila
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Posted: 13-Apr-2006 at 08:48 |
I think Rusmir Mahmutcehajic can explain it best. These are a few passages from a review of his book by
Indraneel Sircar:
In this book, Mahmutcehajic examines the
geopolitical and symbolic meanings of Bosnia. His basic thesis is that
there are two opposing paradigms for Bosnia: Bosnian and anti-Bosnian.
The former is the appreciation of unity through diversity.
According to Mahmutcehajic, the success of the destruction of Bosnia
rests on the historical construction of a Muslim threat. Islam is the
Them that impedes the unified Us in Europe, an incompatible world
that is detrimental to Christendom (p. 6). Moreover, Muslims in Bosnia
were converted to Islam while under Turkish rule, so that the Muslims
become the remnants of some outside invasion, while Croatia and
Serbia could be constructed back to "Tomislavs Kingdom" in 924 and
"Dusans Tsardom" from the thirteenth century respectively (pp. 2-3).
Serb and Croat leaders from outside Bosnia were thus able to construct
a history of two peoples, while constructing the threat of the
Islamic outsider in the region, not only legitimating a three-way
division of Bosnia, but also the "ethnic cleansing" of Bosniak Muslims.
By accepting this three-way division, Bosnian leaders, including
Bosniaks, confirmed the anti-Bosnian thesis. For Mahmutcehajic, the
actions from outside and inside Bosnia resulted in division and the
denial of a thousand-year history of the Bosnian nation and "unity in diversity". This is the
denial of Bosnia.
At times, it seems Mahmutcehajics optimism does
not engage with the deep wounds inflicted during the war that have
divided the communities in Bosnia. The general election in 2000
confirmed that ethnic fault lines are difficult to transcend. Still,
Mahmutcehajics work is compelling and provides insight into an
alternative route to the reconstruction of Bosnia.
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Maju
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Posted: 13-Apr-2006 at 10:27 |
Originally posted by Paul
And as one former nationalist said. Does a nationalist struggle have any relavance whatsoever in these days when we are all members of a European Union? |
It does! We need Basque co-oficial at the highest levels. After all it's the oldest European language still alive. Also, we want to have a direct say in EU, not via our opressors, not through our enemies. ... Anyho, stay on topic and decribe the psyche of your nation... if you have one.
Edited by Maju
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Pieinsky
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Posted: 21-Apr-2006 at 11:50 |
To describe Ireland would be to describe a crippled man who wears a blind fold so not to acknowledge his physical impairments.
Ireland is a country, which claims to be a democracy but when the fog clears the underlying true nature of its essence appears which is a theocracy. Ireland is puppet-ed by Nationalistic fascists and Religious fanatics who have amalgamated together to promote their power.
Why?
This is an interesting topic, more posts please
Edited by Pieinsky
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QueenCleopatra
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Posted: 25-Apr-2006 at 09:52 |
Ireland is a country, which claims to be a democracy but when the fog clears the underlying true nature of its essence appears which is a theocracy. Ireland is puppet-ed by Nationalistic fascists and Religious fanatics who have amalgamated together to promote their power.[quote]
Do we live in the same country at all? How can you be so bitter ? Since when is Ireland fanatical about religon. I mean its important yes but for gods sake !
And I think we have every right to be Nationalists. We were put down for 700 years I think we have the right to stand up and proclaim our pride to be Irish!
And as for not being democratic I suppose thats why have elections on every major issue and why the people get to choose who runs the place.
Edited by QueenCleopatra
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Her Royal Highness , lady of the Two Lands, High Priestess of Thebes, Beloved of Isis , Cleopatra , Oueen of the Nile
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Pieinsky
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Posted: 25-Apr-2006 at 11:43 |
And I think we have every right to be Nationalists. We were put down for 700 years I think we have the right to stand up and proclaim our pride to be Irish!
Queen Cleopatra I believe when a nation puts a price tag on its history with a price immensely high it clearly has nothing to offer in the present.
When it constantly Harps its history as a way to define itself in the present, one conclude that the reason for doing so is because it is not achieving anything new in the contemporary.
Yes, I do believe one should have pride in ones nation if there is something to be proud of. However I think it is wrong to bedazzle oneself with their nations history and do nothing to contribute to their nation in the present. They could offer new things in the present by advancing the arts or the Sciences.
I dont believe a nation should have to attempt to hire government policies to differentiate it self from other nations for the sake of doing so. If another nation is good at literature or is more ahead of us in that subject that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to dis-clued that thing (say literature) from the properties of Irish Culture.
I dont believe in tradition for the sake of tradition, I am against the compulsory of the Irish language subject in school. It is ironic how all traditions do not start as tradition but rather as something new, in fact you could say a tradition is to start something new.
Do we live in the same country at all? How can you be so bitter ? Since when is Ireland fanatical about religon. I mean its important yes but for gods sake !
First of all, I believe in critical thinking, if you do not criticize your nation then you truly are not helping it because no nation can ever be perfect. Based on that premise one should locate the areas where the paint didnt settle well and fix them.
Ireland is a theocracy. Any nation that forces its primary and secondary students to be taught religion in their schools is a theocracy. Since the order is coming from the government one can determine religion is pupating the Government.
And as for not being democratic I suppose thats why have elections on every major issue and why the people get to choose who runs the place.
Who considers whats major?
Edited by Pieinsky - 18-May-2006 at 13:37
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Goban
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Posted: 25-Apr-2006 at 12:18 |
Originally posted by pieinsky
I dont believe in tradition for the sake of tradition, I am against the compulsory of the Irish language subject in school. It is ironic how all traditions do not start as tradition but rather as something new, in fact you could say a tradition is to start something new.
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And then you have us weird Americans who are centuries removed from Ireland trying to learn the language.
It's fairly difficult I might add, especially when you are trying to do it on your own...
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The sharpest spoon in the drawer.
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QueenCleopatra
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Posted: 27-Apr-2006 at 09:08 |
First of all, I believe in critical thinking, if you do not criticize your nation then you truly are not helping it because no nation can ever be perfect. Based on that premise one should locate the areas where the paint didnt settle well and fix them. [quote]
I never said we were perfect far from it but I really don't see that we're as bad as you make out. Of course we have probelms that need to be tackled but
I dont believe a nation should have to attempt to hire government policies to differentiate it self from other nations for the sake of doing so. If another nation is good at literature or is more ahead of us in that subject that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to dis-clued that thing (say literature) from the properties of Irish Culture.[quote]
I'm not sure what you refer to here. What have we disculded ?
Queen Cleopatra I believe when a nation puts a price tag on its history with a price immensely high it clearly has nothing to offer in the present.
When it constantly Harps its history as a way to define itself in the present, one conclude that the reason for doing so is because it is not achieving anything new in the contemporary.[quote]
So do you not think our History is important? Should we just ignore what happened in past and pretend like it never happened?
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Her Royal Highness , lady of the Two Lands, High Priestess of Thebes, Beloved of Isis , Cleopatra , Oueen of the Nile
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Pieinsky
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Posted: 28-Apr-2006 at 17:24 |
So do you not think our History is important? Should we just ignore what happened in past and pretend like it never happened?
No, History should not be forgotten. History is not but container of cause and effect, but more it is a teacher who can advise us on which routes and paths we can undertake as a species. Showing us the mistakes and successes of past generations. Distant relics whose present purpose is a guide and a mentor.
Ancient languages although a component of History, should not require a mass of people to be fluent in them but rather a minority, like a few Egyptologists who havefluent tongues in Ancient Egyptian linguistics. They can act as the deciphers and the medium of the great mentor of Humankind, history.
Pieinsky wrote
I dont believe a nation should have to attempt to hire government policies to differentiate it self from other nations for the sake of doing so. If another nation is good at literature or is more ahead of us in that subject that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to dis-clued that thing (say literature) from the properties of Irish Culture.[quote]
qleopatra wrote
I'm not sure what you refer to here. What have we disculded ?
What I am really trying to express here is that we shouldnt say no to attempting something just because we might associate it with another culture. The definition of Ireland should be flexible; it doesnt have to be obstructed. For example Ireland seems to view itself as mainly a musical nation but we dont have to be just that. We can be more, we shouldnt shield opportunities.
Edited by Pieinsky - 18-May-2006 at 13:38
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gcle2003
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Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 12:27 |
Originally posted by Maju
Originally posted by Paul
And as one former nationalist said. Does a nationalist struggle have any relavance whatsoever in these days when we are all members of a European Union?
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It does! We need Basque co-oficial at the highest levels. After all it's the oldest European language still alive.
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Maybe you could get that, the way the EU is pushing minority languages. There's a special edition of the Official Journal in Irish - if you could get one in Basque they'd probably have to employ you as a translator or at least a proof-reader.
And if Basque, why not Ltzebrgesch?
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Spartakus
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Posted: 01-May-2006 at 15:56 |
Hellens gave birth to Hellenism,and Hellenism is the only actual Force which brings balance between East and West.
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Pieinsky
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Posted: 03-May-2006 at 14:52 |
Could some member(s) please write on this topic what their view of the current psyche of Greece is.
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Spartakus
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Posted: 04-May-2006 at 02:55 |
That is the current psyche of Hellas.Hellas belongs neither in the West nor in the East ,it's the Center(in terms of culture).It brings the 2 areas (West and East ) in communication and therefore it brings balance.
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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RomiosArktos
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Posted: 04-May-2006 at 17:09 |
Originally posted by Spartakus
Hellens gave birth to Hellenism,and Hellenism is the only actual Force which brings balance between East and West. |
The question is however whether we know to use this Force in the right
way.Are we,the modern Hellens, able to use the Force of Hellenism?
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RomiosArktos of many colors and shapes
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