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MLK and Malcolm Xs views
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arch.buff View Drop Down
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Posts: 606 		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: MLK and Malcolm Xs views
    Posted: 08-May-2006 at 07:36

Im not sure if many of you non-Americans have much knowledge on Martin Luther King or Malclom X but they were very important to the civil rights movement. They had pretty much the same goal but had different views on how to achieve that goal. One took a pro-violent and seperatist wave of action and the other was non-violent . Both had a very different up-bringing and both were ministers but of different faiths, one muslim the other christian. So my question is do you believe their stances on the issues were largely dictated by their respected faiths and why or why not.

 

http://stud3.tuwien.ac.at/~e9902644/doc/malcolmx.htm#Ministe r%20Malcolm%20X



Edited by arch.buff
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2006 at 09:57
A quick review on religion during the Civil Rights movmement.

1) Nation of Islam is an American religion that has very little to do with real Islam.

2) Many Christian ministers supported seggregation via theology--their descendents are still around, by the way.

3) Martin Luther King Jr.'s non-violence was strongly influenced by Gandhi, a Hindu.
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Posts: 606 		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 04:28

[QUOTE=hugoestr]A quick review on religion during the Civil Rights movmement.



2) Many Christian ministers supported seggregation via theology--their descendents are still around, by the way.

QUOTE]

Im sure you are right but do you have any examples. Surely I can say none of these beliefs fall in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. 

I'd also have to slightly disagree with you on one point regarding the nation of Islam and Islam itself. I would probably also say that the nation of Islam seems more radical than (conventional?) Islam but the points I think that I would see with Christianity and Islam regarding MLK's actions and Malcolm's actions are that Malcolm repeatedly states in speaches that "It is right to hurt those that hurt us.", thus being the core belief of his violent reactions. This is a belief of all Islam if I am correct. Dr. Kings views stem from Christian teachings in which he became a Baptist minister. Malcolm X is recorded saying "We dont turn the other cheek". Now I hope this isnt seen as a slam on Islam Im sure there have been peaceful movements in its past. Just wanted to get your guys' opinion on the matter.

 



Edited by arch.buff
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 06:19
The Nation of Islam are not muslims at all. From what I know about what the NOI believe they have no relation to real muslims, I personally think they should not be allowed to use the same name. Malcom X however, started as NOI and then converted to real Islam later in his life.

I don't think that MLK's views can be attributed to Chrisitanity either, since the people who he was fighing against were also Christians. While standing up for equality and justice is an (real) Islamic ideal, Malcom X converted to Islam after he was already a big human rights campaigner, so he cannot have had his views come from Islam.

I have never heard of Malcom X being any sort of "minister" in Islam (I take that to mean an Imam), maybe he was in NOI or something
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 07:49

On the theology of racism in the US, http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NXG/is_1_34/ai_9 4160906

is interesting
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Posts: 606 		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 08:28
MLK's views not attributed to christianity? Ask any preacher where his convictions stem from and I think you'll find a different answer. But I would side with you on the whole NOI thing, they do seem pretty radical. Not good to have them associated with Islam seeing as how that Islamic sect was here in the US, and we all know how judgemental and ignorant some Americans can be. Wasnt Muhammed Ali a member of the NOI? I believe he was. 
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Posts: 606 		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 08:30
interesting article gcle
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 09:48

Here is a description of some racists Christian sects that survive to this day. The movement is called Christian Identity. They normally have as much in common with Christianity as Nation of Islam has with Islam.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/cr_ident.htm

Just like Christian Identity churches, a racist theology is at the center of Nation of Islam. I may be mistaken, but as far as I know, Islam has as a central principle a rejection of racism.

Originally posted by wikipedia

The main belief of The Nation of Islam is that God came to the earth in the form of a human named Wallace Fard Muhammad and that they should pray five times a day to the holy city of Mecca. The official beliefs as stated by the Nation of Islam have been outlined in books, documents, and articles published by the organization as well as speeches by Elijah Muhammad, Malcolm X, Louis Farrakhan, and other ministers. These include inflammatory, racist statements as well as the pejorative use of the term white devils to refer to all Caucasians. Many of Elijah Muhammad's teachings may be found in Message to the Blackman in America and The True History of Jesus as Taught by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad (Chicago: Coalition for the Remembrance of Elijah, 1992). Many of Malcolm X's teachings of NOI theology are in his The End of White World Supremacy, while a later more critical discussion of those beliefs can be found in The Autobiography of Malcolm X, co-written with Alex Haley.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam


And it is a bit unfair to use Martin Luther King Jr.'s philosophy of non-violence as an example for Christianity since this is cherry-picking the best.

Between the two extremes of racist Christian Churches and MLK, there were many who thought segregation were wrong, many who supported, and many who probably didn't do much to end it even if they didn't feel to comfortable with it either.

And if the history of Europe is any guide, Christianity seems a pretty violent religion also


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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 14:45
In order to have moderates become pallatable to the mainstream you need extremists to show the alternative.  Malcolm X served the civil rights movements immensely by showing people what might happen without reforms along the moderate lines of MLK.  Too bad they both debased themselves by using religion but no one can be perfect.
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 17:53
NOI don't believe that Mohammed was the last prophet. Thats like being a christian and not beliving in christ.
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 18:06
Religion was a necessary way for organizing African Americans. It was through Churches that Martin Luther King Jr. was able to successfully organize the boicots and other kinds of peaceful protests.

Reading pieces on Christian theology by Martin Luther King Jr. is very interesting. He was not a theological innovator; most of his speeches on the subject are based on other people's ideas. But it is interesting to see how he finds the concept of agape to be so fundamental in Christianity.

We can fairly say that this idea is found in Christianity, but the same can be said about Gandhi's Hinduism. After all, Gandhi was one of the greatest inspirations for MLK.
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 23:11
Originally posted by arch.buff

Not good to have them associated with Islam seeing as how that Islamic sect was here in the US, and we all know how judgemental and ignorant some Americans can be. Wasnt Muhammed Ali a member of the NOI? I believe he was.

Yeah, I hate to think that some people might be associating NOI beliefs with the real muslims. Muhammed Ali was the same as Malcom X, started as NOI and converted to Islam later.

Originally posted by hugoestr

I may be mistaken, but as far as I know, Islam has as a central principle a rejection of racism.

Yep your right. All people are equal, regardless of race, sex, wealth etc.

I wonder how the NOI feel about white real muslims?

And it is a bit unfair to use Martin Luther King Jr.'s philosophy of non-violence as an example for Christianity since this is cherry-picking the best.
...
And if the history of Europe is any guide, Christianity seems a pretty violent religion also

Yes I agree. MLK may be closer to the current popular image of an ideal christian, but you can't extend that to saying because of christianity he was like this.

Originally posted by Tobodai

In order to have moderates become pallatable to the mainstream you need extremists to show the alternative.  Malcolm X served the civil rights movements immensely by showing people what might happen without reforms along the moderate lines of MLK.  Too bad they both debased themselves by using religion but no one can be perfect.

Definitely true.

I don't think you can say that Malcom X's views were influenced by NOI either. It is much more likely that NOI's beliefs are influenced by Malcom X. Even if he did abandon them later.

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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2006 at 19:07

MalcomX was one of the greatest black activisits and a personal favourite along with mohammed Ali. I just cant help support the underdog.

They walked as freemen when others were afraid, they walked with their heads held high when everyone wanted them lowered and discredited not just in their own community but in front of the whole nation. They lived their lives on their own terms. god bless his soul.

I do wonder why NOI adopted islamic symbolism and ways, although i do believe that they are not even considered a sect in Islam. I think they believe that the white man was created by an evil scientist in a lab.

I have seen the film based on his life and was impressed. He became a muslim after going on hajj and finding that he waas rubbing his shoulders with black white brown and none looked down on him but accepted him in their fold cordially and without question.

 



Edited by malizai_
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