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Master_Blaster
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Topic: Feminism - has it gone too far? Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 17:24 |
Originally posted by annechka
you think every man that compliments you wants sex.
No. but it is interesting that that is your interpretation of my comment. |
annechka jaan,
You seem to have misinterpreted my comment yourself. It was intended as a joke against radical feminists, and nothing more.
Originally posted by annechka
I appreciate sincere compliments. |
And when I stated that I found you to be intelligent and witty -it was a very sincere compliment.
Originally posted by annechka
Aelfgifu I quite agree with you about education. I have found encouragement makes a difference on whether men or women go to university.. |
Also, more women attend university than men due to socio-economic factors. Young males are burdened with more responsibility than their female counterparts.
Edited by Master_Blaster - 08-Aug-2006 at 17:28
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 02:56 |
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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Reginmund
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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 07:18 |
True, female students are often far too industrious and dutiful. I get tired just watching them.
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morticia
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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 12:24 |
Originally posted by Master_Blaster
... Young males are burdened with more responsibility than their female |
Well, maybe if males would accept women as equals, they could share the responsibilities so it would not be a burden to either gender.
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"Morty
Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst
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flyingzone
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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 18:04 |
Originally posted by Master_Blaster
By "my women" - I meant the women I am intimately involved with. It wasn't a slip of the tongue. Do you refer to "your girlfriend" as "everyone's girlfriend"?? By stating it as "my women" - I was referring to women I have relationships with. It wasn't meant as a chauvinistic possessive remark - just as I am sure my girlfriend refers to me as "my man" even though I do not belong to her.
I am sorry you are so unfamiliar with English jargon. |
That is not a "jargon", Mr. Linguistics. That is "syntax".
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Master_Blaster
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Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 19:27 |
Originally posted by flyingzone
Originally posted by Master_Blaster
By "my women" - I meant the women I am intimately involved with. It wasn't a slip of the tongue. Do you refer to "your girlfriend" as "everyone's girlfriend"?? By stating it as "my women" - I was referring to women I have relationships with. It wasn't meant as a chauvinistic possessive remark - just as I am sure my girlfriend refers to me as "my man" even though I do not belong to her.
I am sorry you are so unfamiliar with English jargon. |
That is not a "jargon", Mr. Linguistics. That is "syntax".
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I made that comment on August 3rd and today is August 9th.
So sad that it took you 6 full days to research and come up with a proper response.
I don't care too much about being familiar with linguistic terms as it isn't going to be a great asset to me in my everyday life, I do however, appreciate the SIX days of painstaking effort you put into researching the term "jargon" which I introduced to you.
Edited by Master_Blaster - 09-Aug-2006 at 19:27
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SKYE
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Joined: 16-Aug-2006
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 16:29 |
I agree with all of your comments in regards to this
topic. I agree with master blaster
also although his opinions are governed by the influence of his gender, it is also
the case with ours. Our opinions are so
different due to the fact that we are different. Women are from Venus, men are
from mars is exactly what it is. We are
prejudiced with one another, because we claim we understand each other, but
truth of the matter is we dont and that is whats really wrong with this
picture. I agree that we should be able to do what men can do, however when
safety is a factor in a situation, physical and mental strength is important. Though
it does not mean that women are weaker in a physical way, and men are weaker in
the mental capacity, its which person who is more qualified for the task.
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vulkan02
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 10:06 |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
Originally posted by red clay
That occurs much more frequently with men than it does women, men who are hired simply because they are men, the fact they aren't worth their weight in warm spit is tolerated. I know 30 women I would hire in a heartbeat over a man. All of them could work most men into the ground and know how to do a job once, not until they get it right, right the first time. Fact- Women have 60% less absentee problems, fewer problems with alcohol and train much faster. |
You are quite right red clay. In societies where females are treated as equal, far more girls attend university than men. Not because they are smarter, but simply because they are more devoted, more interested and just work harder. This is even visible in my family: me and my sister both attend(ed) university, while our brother, who is just as smart, settled for a lower level, simply because he does not have the drive to do the uni.
At this rate, it will not be long before the male-focused top levels will have to be replaced by equally capable woman, without any interference from government. (which is not very large anyway over here. Woman are quite capable of getting jobs on their own.)
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Not sure if you can say this about any kind of society where females are treated as equal to males. In US i dont know if "far more girls" attend university more than men. Devotion, interest and hard work is another myth i think as far as the US is concerned. If this is the case why the vast majority of Noble price winners are men and not women? I don't believe the rate of nominees has changed much even after the sexual revolution of the 1960's and 70's. Women I believe, are more hard workers because they more likely to accept things as they are, as they are taught in school, university etc. Some men like to challange the instituiton by changing the beliefs of society wether its science, politics, religion etc hence thats why they are probably more lazy about learning as it is presented. I see you live in Netherlands and as Ive heard about the society there it seems it is very pro-feminist. One thing someone told me is that its not custom for men to approach women there and must wait around for women to approach them.
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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Northman
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 10:30 |
Originally posted by vulkan02
I see you live in Netherlands and as Ive heard about the society there it seems it is very pro-feminist. One thing someone told me is that its not custom for men to approach women there and must wait around for women to approach them.
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No big surprise there Vulkan - its the same here in Denmark. All my life I have defended myself from wild hordes of liberated feminists chasing me for sex - its very exhausting, believe me.
PS
Dont believe everything you are "told" or everything you read
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Mila
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 13:55 |
Originally posted by Northman
All my life I have defended myself from wild hordes of
liberated feminists chasing me for sex - its very exhausting, believe
me. |
Very funny.
Here the dynamic depends on the situation. At a nightclub, even girls
in hijab will make cat-calls at the boys and that sort of thing. It's
pretty equal.
But at something more formal, it's very, very different. If my husband
and I were at, say, a business function of his and went to the hotel
bar afterwards. If once everything was done and the dance is started,
and I wanted him to dance with me, I'd go and stand sort of beside-sort
of behind where he is sitting and just wait for him to notice me
(usually whoever else is at the table points you out, lol) and then
when he turns around, he gets up to dance. I don't say a word. It's in
my head that it would be... disrespecting him in front of his
coworkers... if I did say a word?
Silly how things get programmed into you.
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morticia
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 14:15 |
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"Morty
Trust in God: She will provide." -- Emmeline Pankhurst
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Master_Blaster
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 16:39 |
Originally posted by Mila
Here the dynamic depends on the situation. At a nightclub, even girls in hijab will make cat-calls at the boys and that sort of thing. It's pretty equal. |
I find this type of behavior by some hijabis completely unacceptable. When a woman wears hijab, and goes out in public, she is representing Muslim piety. When a non-Muslim witnesses a hijabi engaged in such behavior, it represents a false view of Islam and the Islamic Nation. If females want to engage in such behavior, then they ought to remove the hijab. I don't want anyone to get the impression from seeing a hijabi flirting with boys and interpreting it as "Is this what Islam teaches?" - at least if she is not wearing the hijab, then no one would think of her as a Muslim woman flirting with boys but rather as just another young flirtatious girl.
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vulkan02
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 23:55 |
Originally posted by Northman
No big surprise there Vulkan - its the same here in Denmark. All my life I have defended myself from wild hordes of liberated feminists chasing me for sex - its very exhausting, believe me.
PS
Dont believe everything you are "told" or everything you read
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Thanks for your little moral-of-the-story there but actually i read about it in an article precisely about Dutch society by a Dutch author. Instead of commenting about this small part of my post you could have been a little more introspective and countered with something about the first point I was trying to make. As far as "wild hordes of liberated feminists", while you defending yourslef from them then i hope guys will chase you so you'll put ur sword down and have your little fun with them.
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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Guests
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Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 07:00 |
Originally posted by vulkan02
I see you live in Netherlands and as Ive heard about the society there it seems it is very pro-feminist. One thing someone told me is that its not custom for men to approach women there and must wait around for women to approach them. |
Unfortunately that's not true.
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vulkan02
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Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 09:00 |
oh well it was a nice little diversion...
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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Northman
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Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 10:44 |
Originally posted by Mila
Originally posted by Northman
All my life I have defended myself from wild hordes of liberated feminists chasing me for sex - its very exhausting, believe me. |
Very funny.
Here the dynamic depends on the situation. At a nightclub, even girls in hijab will make cat-calls at the boys and that sort of thing. It's pretty equal.
But at something more formal, it's very, very different. If my husband and I were at, say, a business function of his and went to the hotel bar afterwards. If once everything was done and the dance is started, and I wanted him to dance with me, I'd go and stand sort of beside-sort of behind where he is sitting and just wait for him to notice me (usually whoever else is at the table points you out, lol) and then when he turns around, he gets up to dance. I don't say a word. It's in my head that it would be... disrespecting him in front of his coworkers... if I did say a word?
Silly how things get programmed into you.
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Dont be discouraged Mila - you both can be re-formatted and re-programmed.
You both come visit me here in Denmark for a couple of days, and it will happen automatically.
Edited by Northman - 18-Aug-2006 at 10:48
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flyingzone
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Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 11:18 |
Since we've finally gotten rid of this "Master Blaster" person (for making racist remarks in other threads - which actually proves my point that there is a close association between racism and sexism, both being manifestations of extreme social backwardness and ignorance, evident in the moronic posts made by this MB person), I am returning to this discussion with both the topic of this thread and our experience with this MB person in mind. (I stayed away from it because I couldn't even stand the sight of the handle of this obnoxious individual.) Contrary to how this MB person or some other forumers have tried to describe me, I am not a "radical" feminist. I am just intolerant of intolerance. There I find, again, the analogy between racism and sexism. I think none of us tolerates racism. That's why it baffles me when some of us, including even some women, seem to tolerate various "degrees" of sexism. Yes, MB was expressing his "opinion" alright. But it is blatantly clear that he is a sexist (and even he acknowledges that and is very proud of that), and I think there is no need for the rest of us to apologize for finding his ignorance repugnant. I think part of the "problem" is that women, even in the West, have all been brought up to "make nice" even when faced with the most baseless attack, abuse, and ridicule. I am also afraid that some women even have a tendency to self-censor themselves even before men start censoring them. They are too self-critical of themselves and too timid with the few "gains" that they've made in advancing their basic rights.
Take the topic of this thread as an example. While I do applaud Mila's intention to force us to reflect on the current state of feminism, I cannot but ask myself, "Have men ever asked the question of whether patriarchy has gone too far?" If not, why do women have to make such an introspection about the little gain that they've made in their fight for respect and equality?
In the context of patriarchy, which is still the norm everywhere in the world including some of the world's most egailitarian countries when it comes to gender relations, women being too modest and diplomatic about what they want and about their disgust with injustice will only reinforce and even invite more viciousness from people like this MB guy.
I think statements like "I understand you are speaking from the viewpoint of men" are totally unnecessary because, first of all, not all men "view" thinks like that, and even if all men indeed shared this view, it's wrong, and how can one endorse wrong?
Finally, I resent being called a "radical feminist" as described in one of the posts, sadly made by a new female AE member who probably knows nothing about me. I don't advocate women giving up their "maternal duties" and neither do I argue for ridiculous ideas such as "male pregnancy". What I am is just someone who is intolerant of intolerance. By the way, everyone who's been here for some time knows I am a man, not a woman. I find putting me as the diametric opposite of this MB guy extremely insulting.
Edited by flyingzone - 27-Aug-2006 at 12:16
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 16:09 |
Ah, Master-Bleater is gone! Now that is good news coming back to after my two weeks abcence. Thank you, flyingzone, for your wise and clear post. I so totally agree with you, I wish I could have made my own posts this clear, but I am not that well spoken unfortunately...
The main point is that women should be treated as equals. Perhaps there are jobs where women cannot perform the same as men, but that can also be claimed the other way around. But who would not call it silly to forbid a man to become a midwife?
It is true there are far more men at top levels than women, and more male nobel-prize winners, and more male professors, but to see this as proof men are better at it is turning the world upside down...
I know a lot of women who want to be professors, but I know very little woman who want to run an international bankingfirm. Mila's original point is easily disproven if you realise that even in countries where women have good equal chances, they tend to still choose to put their family above their work. The fact that so many men seem not to do so says more about men than women I believe.
I remember that in school one time, about 7 years ago, the teacher asked us, a group of 17-20 years old, if we would either start working part time or quit our job if there would be children. I was the only girl to say no, as I was the only girl who did not want children. There was not one boy who said yes. They were all of the opinion that their wives or girlfriends should work less. The disturbing thing was, most of the girls agreed.
If here in the Netherlands, which we ourselves and many others like to believe a very free and equal country, this was the common frame of mind. That is the sad thruth about equal rights for women. The law may permit them all and sunder, as long as they and the men around them believe like this, nothing will change.
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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flyingzone
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Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 17:07 |
Welcome back, Aelfgifu. I did notice your absence. I thought you were so sickened by this MB guy that you decided to leave us. I never thought of quitting AE, of course. But I did intentionally stop coming to this particular sub-forum just to avoid reading his moronic and offensive posts. It's one thing having a discussion with someone who differs in opinion but is informed and polite. It's an entirely different story when that person is stupid, rude, and ignorant like this MB guy.
Looking forward to reading your posts and sharing your opinions again.
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QueenCleopatra
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Posted: 21-Sep-2006 at 08:58 |
Too far? You are joking!
We should be grateful we've come as far as we have. 100 years ago women were confined to the home and the domestic type jobs. They had no say in any issues relevant to the economy or social issues or any kind of politics. Now we are doctors, lawyers, teachers etc. Now in 2006 we have a vioce in our countires present and future. Its important we don't let that slip away from us. A little girl power never hurt anyone!
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Her Royal Highness , lady of the Two Lands, High Priestess of Thebes, Beloved of Isis , Cleopatra , Oueen of the Nile
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