Alexander�s Sexuality

This is a topic that has exausted itself a long time ago.

Sexual ethics of ancient Greece were not the same as our own and if we see it according to our Christian morality we'd say that he was "gay" or "Bi" or whatever.

In reality, people back then were not concerned about these issues the way we do and they would receive sexual pleasure in any way they would see fit as long as it wouldn't pass some reasonable limitations.

So a comtemporary to describe somebody as "bi" would be meaningless.

But don't pay too much attention to historical facts in the movie because you'll be disappointed. Just watch it and have fun with it!

I agree

at that time sex and sexuality between men was as normal as it was between men and women.

and they didnt have any age restriction either, i still cant understand this but it was allowed by the childern's perants that their childern can do it with each other or with older people too!!!

i got that from a book i read some years ago.

Unfortunately homos probably always will exist as they have through history in every civilization. But from that to saying they were any kind of norm or accepted in ancient Hellas is the least I can say stupid and show total lack of knowledge on the topic Hellas.

The only way for a homo to be accepted in Hellas was, if he had previously "gone public" with his homosexual lifestyle. In that case, though he would have been permitted to live, he would, under Athenian law (grafi etairisios), not be permitted to
become one of the nine archons, nor to discharge the office of priest, nor to
act as an advocate for the state, nor shall he hold any office whatsoever, at home or abroad, whether filled by lot or by election; he shall not be sent as a herald; he shall not take part in debate, nor be present at the public sacrifices; when the citizens are wearing garlands, he shall wear none; and he shall not enter within the limits of the place that has been purified for the assembling of the people. Any man who has been convicted of defying these prohibitions pertaining to sexual conduct shall be put to death (Aeschines. "Contra Timarchus," ( so basicaly he didn`t even exist, easy to understand if you`ve read anything about ancient Athens )

some things that MUST be read from the original texts:

Aeschines in his speech Contra Timarchus based his defense on the law which denied any participation in public affairs by homosexuals and pederasts. According to the law of "same-sex companionship" (graf� etair�sios), any citizen could bring charges against a person suspected or known to be a sodomite or a pederast. Aeschines will attempt to prove that Timarchus did not have the civil right to bring charges against him because his "lifestyle"-- that of a "passive" homosexual ( i.e., a k�naidos, the most repulsive and destructive form of homosexuality, according to the Greeks)legally rendered him a non-person according to Athenian law

Some of the laws mentioned :

a) The teachers of the boys shall open the school-rooms not earlier than sunrise,and they shall close them before sunset. No person who is older than the boys shall be permitted to enter the room while they are there, unless he be a son of the teacher, a brother, or a daughter's husband. If any one enter in violation of this prohibition, he shall be punished with death. The superintendents of the gymnasia shall under no conditions allow any one who has reached the age of manhood to enter the contests of Hermes together with the boys. A gymnasiarch who does permit this and fails to keep such a person out of the gymnasium, shall be liable to the penalties prescribed for the seduction of free-born youth. Every choregus who is appointed by the people shall be more than forty years of age.


b) If any Athenian shall outrage a free-born child, the parent or guardian of the child shall prosecute him before the Thesmothetae, and shall demand a specific penalty. If the court condemn the accused to death, he shall be delivered to the constables and be put to death the same day. If he be con- demned to pay a fine, and be unable to pay the fine immediately, he must pay within eleven days after the trial, and he shall remain in prison until payment is made. The same action shall hold against those who abuse the persons of slaves.

c) If any Athenian shall have prostituted his person, he shall not be permitted to become one of the nine archons, nor to discharge the office of priest, nor to act as an advocate for the state, nor shall he hold any office whatsoever, at home or abroad, whether filled by lot or by election; he shall not be sent as a herald; he shall not take part in debate, nor be present at the public sacrifices; when the citizens are wearing garlands, he shall wear none; and he shall not enter within the limits of the place that has been purified for the assembling of the people. If any man who has been convicted of prostitution act contrary to these prohibitions, he shall be put to death.

Aeschines then summoned the jury to remember their (Athenian) ancestors, who were "stern ... toward all shameful conduct," and considered the purity of their children and fellow citizens to be "precious." He goes on to give an example regarding the way the Lacedaemonians (Spartans) felt about such matters. He justifies his praising the Spartans by quoting an old Athenian saying which teaches that it is "well to imitate virtue even in a foreigner." [kalon d' esti dai tas xenikas mime�sthai.]


Julianus, Flavius Claudius ("the Apostate") educated in Greek "paideia". On the subject in question, writes:


Then never think, my friend, that you are free while your belly rules you and the part below the belly, since you will then have masters who can either furnish you with the means of pleasure or deprive you of them. (Oration VI, 196 c.)


Plato talks about how homosexuals must worry about being found out:


If you are afraid of public opinion, and fear that if people find out your love affair you will be disgraced. (Phaedrus, 231 e.)

More Plato:
This law is the cause of countless blessings. For, in the first place, it follows the dictates of nature, and it serves to keep men from sexual rage and frenzy and all kindsof fornication, and from all excess in meats and drinks, and it ensures in husbands fondness for their own wives. (Laws, VIII. 839 a - b.)

I maintain ... that our citizens must not be worse than fowls and many other animals which are produced in large broods, and which live chaste and celibate lives withoutsexual intercourse until they arrive at the age for breeding; and when they reach this age they pair off, as instinct moves them, male with female and female with male; and thereafter they live in a way that is holy and just, remaining constant to their first contracts of love: surely our citizens should at least be better than these animals.(Laws, VIII. 840 d - e.)



About Alexander the Great, Plutarch has this to say:

When the governor of the coast-lands of Asia Minor wrote to Alexander that there was in Ionia a youth, the like of whom for bloom and beauty did not exist, and inquired in his letter whether he should send the boy on to him, Alexander wrote bitterly in reply, "Vilest of men, what deed of this sort have you ever been privy to in my past that now you would flatter me with the offer of such pleasures?" (On The Fortune of Alexander, 333 a - b.)

About the Spartans:

Affectionate regard for boys of good character was permissible, but embracing themwas held to be disgraceful, on the ground that the affection was for the body and not for the mind. Any man against whom complaint was made of any disgraceful embracing was deprived of all civic rights for life. (Ancient Customs of the Spartans, 7. 237 - c.)

That the law against pederasty was violated on occasion there can be no doubt, but there is also no doubt that it was illegal. For instance, Plutarch writes:

Pederasty needs a fair pretext for approaching the young and beautiful, so it pretends friendship and virtue. It covers itself with the sand of the wrestling-floor, it takes cold baths, it plays the highbrow and publicly proclaims that it is a philosopher and disciplined
on the outside -- because of the law. (Dialogue on Love, 752 - a. Emphasis added.)

Other sources:
Robert Flaceliere in his book Love in Ancient Greece (trans. by James Cleugh. Frederick Muller Ltd., London; 1962) :

On page 140 he writes: "The permanent popularity of courtesans [hetairai] in ancient Greece is surely the best proof that homosexuals were either not consistently so or not particularly numerous. We have already suggested that inversion was never very prevalent except in one class of society and over quite a limited period."

Bruce S Thornton, a professor of Classics at California State University, Fresno,
In the preface (p. xiii) of his book titled Eros: (The Myth of Ancient Greek Sexuality).
States in no uncertain terms that the Greeks "were horrified and disgusted by the idea of a male being anally penetrated by another male, and called such behavior 'against nature.' "

On page 100, Dr. Thornton writes:

Very little, if any, evidence from ancient Greece survives that shows adult males (or females) as "couples" involved in an ongoing, reciprocal sexual and emotional relationship in which sex with women (or men) is moot and the age difference is no more significant than it is in heterosexual relationships.

This stupid theory is based on a mistranslation.

"eromenos" from "eromai" = to ask, enquire
And "erastes" from "erao"/ "eraomai" = to be in love with, without sexual reference to love warmly/admire
it also gives us "eromene" = the beloved one

A character in Plutarch's Erotikos (Dialogue on Love) argues that �the noble lover of beauty "falls" in love wherever he sees excellence and splendid natural endowment without regard for any difference in physiological detail.�

So we see that gender just becomes an irrelevant �detail� and instead the excellence in character and beauty is what is most important.

Hmm... isn't this exactly what "erastes" means ?

Since the topic is about Alexander, I'll provide some more TRUE FACTS.
From our 3 Hellinic sources on Alexander (Arrian, Diodorus and Plutarch) we never once see the mistranslated terms "Erates' or "Eromenos" (according to the mistranslated theory the two members of the homo relationship) but we do find the words "philos"= friend or "malista timomenos"= very honoured.
Alexander himself calls Hephaestion "Philalexandros"= friend of Alexander.
And in the Latin sources (Curtius and Justin) we find "amicus"=friendly but we never once find "amans"= a lover.

I also saw the Sacred band of Thebes being ridiculed in here, people please!!!

Plutarch records the words of Philip, touring the field after the battle in his Life of Pelopidas:
"lying all where they had faced the long spears of his phalanx, with their armour, and mingled one with another, he was amazed, and on learning that this was the band of (erastes=teachers) and (eromenoi=tutors), he shed tears and said, 'Perish miserably they who think that these men did or suffered aught disgraceful!'"
Philip buried their bodies with honor, setting up the Lion of Chaeronea over them. Note that the tomb was found, proving Plutarchs account to be correct.

The text according to all the wanna-be historian's translations I've seen, wrongly suggest that they were a band of homos and give the well known (by now) mistranslation of (erastes) and (eromenos), you know the alleged lovers.
Quote:

Another thing to think about:
At the 6th International Symposium on Ancient Macedonia in Thessaloniki, Greece, concluded that King Philip II of Macedonia was bisexual.

Now the interesting part:
During this "symposium" these alleged historians were comfronted by the well known (in Hellas that is) Hellin researcher Kyriakos Delopoulos.
What he managed to uncover is very interesting.

The two main speakers were Kate Modersen and Mandian (spelling) were the main speakers, both well respected historians and professors at New England University.
He argued with them on the topic, his arguments were based on the original texts, by original I mean in ancient Hellinic, not translated.
These wanna-be historians couldn't read a word in ancient Hellinic and of course had no idea on how to translate the text.
It was all over the Hellinic news how they were ridiculed and left, long before it even ended.

So, what historians are we talking about when they can't even read the original SOURCES and how credible can their opinion really be?

>>i think it was more normal than what you think<<

Interesting point you've made. But the very fact that we have absolutely NO original source that supports the homo theory is all the proof needed.

I've seen the homo supporters even try to use the myth of the abduction of Ganymedes by Zeus. The funny thing is they all conviniently never give any attention to what Xenophon wrote about the very name Ganymedes.

Symposium (also known as Banquet). 8.54-58
"to show you that not men only, but gods and heroes, set greater store by friendship of the soul than bodily enjoyment. Thus those fair women [55] whom Zeus, enamoured of their outward beauty, wedded, he permitted mortal to
remain; but those heroes whose souls he held in admiration, these he
raised to immortality. Of whom are Heracles and the Dioscuri, and
there are others also named.[56] As I maintain, it was not for his
body's sake, but for his soul's, that Ganymede[57] was translated to
Olympus, as the story goes, by Zeus. And to this his very name bears
witness, for is it not written in Homer?

And he continues 8.59
"Knowing deep devices {medea} in his mind, [59]
which is as much as to say, "Knowing wise counsels in his mind."
Ganymede, therefore, bears a name compounded of the two words, "joy"
and "counsel," and is honoured among the gods, not as one "whose
body," but "whose mind" "gives pleasure."