Asli Bayram: First Turkish Miss Germany

@ Qutuz,

The social issues in regards to premarital sex, promiscuity, high divorce rate, adultery, and children born out of wedlock, which you are contributing strictly to Western society, can also be found in any other culture, although probably not as prevalently. Divorce, adultery, children born out of wedlock, premarital sex, and promiscuity, are also a part of daily life in any Islamic society. The only difference being that these vices are more strictly frowned upon in conservative Muslim culture, and therefore, not as out in the open as they are here in the West. Be that as it may, this also leads to a multitude of other social and familial issues that take place in Muslim and Eastern societies, which are frowned upon or not tolerated to the same degree in the West. Take for example, wife beatings, and honor killings. True, that the divorce rate in America and in the West is much higher than in the Middle East, but in the West, wives are not routinely beaten, and it is certainly not acceptable to the society, whereas it is not only common, but very acceptable in Muslim societies (and don't try to bullsh*t me by saying that it is not, I know exactly what happens in Muslim societies -especially ones dominated by an Islamist agenda). How often are women and girls murdered in the West for having premarital sex, being raped (no fault of their own, or even for being seen with a male who is not related to them? Are women forced to marry their rapist in America? Or are you now going to claim that this is a mere myth as well? My point being that yes, there are certain issues in the West in regards to the family structure, however, these social issues do not absolve the social issues faced by women in conservative Muslim societies.

Nope. You have some serious misconceptions about free, democratic, secular societies. Miss Asli Bayram is afforded the opportunity under the secular and free laws of the nation-state of Germany; however, this does not imply that she is free from societal opinion and/or condemnation. You're just upset that she disavows your mythological claims that Muslim women do not engage in premarital sex.

Maybe because it is immoral, abnormal, and atypical in Western society, where a woman does not need to hang onto the coattails of a man for financial security? I know why you are not condemning it, because it is the norm in conservative Muslim �and especially Arab � societies for much older men to be married to very young women. This is especially commonplace in the Gulf states.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Acceptance of homosexuality in Western society, and what you label as "sexual perversion," but we in the West commonly accept as minding one's business in regards to premarital sexual relations, and the idea of a 24 year old woman leeching off a 62 year old man for financial gain �are mutually exclusive.

Muslims are not condemned for taking more than one wife; rather it is just a foreign and often misunderstood concept in Western culture. Marriage in the West is viewed differently than marriage in Muslim or in Eastern society. I personally do not condemn it, nor am I offended by it.

Your points lack substance and originality. They are little more than Islamist ideology and one that I have heard many times before.

Are you claiming that the correct interpretation of Islam did not govern Taliban-ruled Afghanistan? Or does not now govern the Islamic Republic of Iran? Or the Arab heartland of Arabia? You may make any such absurd claims as you wish, but the fact of the matter is that even without the Caliphate, or an official Islamic government, Islam governs the every day affairs of conservative Muslim societies found in every Muslim-majority country today.

Oh really? I did not realize that the Taliban, the IRI, and vice and virtue police of Arabia bore any Western ideals. Very interesting. *sarcasm* *lots and lots of sarcasm*

The problems of Middle Eastern peoples today are due to their conservative religious nature. Their refusal to modernize and accept reforms, and their unwillingness to let go of 7th Century ideas while living in the 21st Century.

Sure. Whatever you want to believe, buddy.

Wrong again! What you have posted is pure garbage! There are laws in the West against domestic violence, why are there not any laws against domestic violence in Islamic countries? Why is it accepted as a part of life? And worse, as a part of marriage? Why do husbands, and in-laws beat women without fear of arrest or prosecution throughout the Middle East? Why are women who dishonor their family, allowed to be murdered by male relatives, and these men are then allowed to go free? Enough with the BS, Islamist! I know very well what happens in Muslim societies �and you know that I know this! And it hurts you to the core for me to call out your bullsh*t!

I am sure honor killings were far more common before 1924 than they are now. The only difference being that there was no UN or human rights organization to count the dead bodies of innocent girls and women.

PS: My ex-girlfriend (the one I was telling you about), got an arranged marriage to some sucker � her cousin! He thought he was getting a virgin!