History of animals

We can spend all day throwing contradicting numbers at each other.

The fact that there are such contradicting numbers should prove that neither position is fully right. Although I still believe my position is more right.

What I see is a growing number of high-level debates & actions on an issue you don't consider a real concern.

I don't consider it a real concern since I believe that the whole of nature is stronger than anything humanity can throw at it.

just a question for all animal and non-animal lovers. Would anybody have a problem if the mosquito became extinct?

Very much so, many insectivores would find a plentiful food supply gone so quickly, not to mention the extinction of many disease carrying organisms.

Hello JanusRook. Are you arguing just for the sake of argument? From the way you write I assume you to be a teenager or in your early twenties at the most.     I'm just joking.
Any way I guess it was my fault that I wrote my post in a way that someone like you could just pick,pick, pick. Let me clarify things first.

Originally posted by JanusRook Morality though is subjective

    I know that really well , that is why I asked your opinion and wrote ''I think'' before giving my opinion, however I do think that there are some universal moral codes such as compassion , generosity , humanity and love.

Originally posted by JanusRook Are you claiming you have a superior moral code to the man in the photo.

    No , That was not the point of my argument.

Originally posted by JanusRook His moral code sees it as a struggle to conquer a beast that has quite a good chance of conquering him. He is trying to prove his strength is comparable to the majestic creature.

That is not his moral code , it is his Ego, two quite different beasts. Think about it from the polar bear's point of view, this man who has nothing to do with him/her suddenly turns up and tries to prove his strength to him/her. What if the poor polar bear had cubs waiting for food at home?

Originally posted by JanusRook . The real question is do you believe it's morally right for natives to hunt polar bears? And if so, why do they get acceptance when the non-native doesn't?-]

    Based on examples from other parts of the world such as the relationship between the Bison and the native Americans, indigenous peoples have usually lived in harmony with their natural environment taking only what they need for food, clothing and shelter. Bearing in mind the landscape of the Inuits, their main sustainable food source are the animals that live there. If you had read my post carefully and considered rather than reacting, you would have noticed that my answer to your question was already there. Let me quote myself.

Originally posted by omshanti I don't think it is right to kill any living creature just for pleasure or sport.

You wrote

Originally posted by JanusRook . Your belief places humans outside of the natural order. Making them the obstruction in nature. I contend that humans have never left the natural order,

If I believed that humans are outside of the natural order, I wouldn't have written this.

Originally posted by omshanti Until now other animals have paid for the mess humans make , but I am sure that if we do not take global warming seriously and don't take action , some time in the near future it would be humanity itself that will be the victim of the mess it is making.

    I do think that humans are not in harmony with the nature any more and have lost their respect for it.

JanusRook , you are very welcome to have the last word if you want , it seems like that is what you care most for in this thread, but please have a little respect towards the topic of this thread and other posters. If you do not care for animals or their well-being it makes me wonder why you wanted to write in this thread at all. Merely to play devils advocate?

    Take a look at this for some well researched fact on climate change. Click the following link.     CLIMATE CHANGE FACTS
    
    
    

Edited by omshanti - 09-Dec-2006 at 17:47

does anybody know why "the man" created the myth about "wolly mammoths" anyway?

Is that last one an ocelot?

Originally posted by JanusRook Is that last one an ocelot?

Close, looks a lot like an ocelot. It is a Clouded leopard (Neofelis Nebulosa), endemic to South East Asia. Very Beautiful Cat indeed. They have the longest canine teeth of any cat for their size - up to 8cm! Kind of like a modern day Smilodon.

Also, Thankyou Queen Cleopatra for posting those awesome pics of big cats - tis very cool! Hope to see more of you around!

Excuse my delayed response but I've been holidaying, and I'll be back in a few days

Peace out

- Knights -

 

Originally posted by JanusRook Darn, I could've sworn it was an ocelot, say do you guys consider an ocelot a small big cat or a big small cat?

Well the ocelot, along with things like cheetahs, clouded leopards, snow leopards, lynxes.etc are very tricky in how you class them. Generally you can consider any cat that is bigger than a domestic one as a generic 'big cat'. However, the scientific fact behind the matter is that true big cats are only made up of 4 species, differentiated to the others in the felidae family through several physiological aspects.

The 4 true big cat species belong to the genus 'Panthera'. There are numerous subspecies within these, but put simply they are:

- Tiger (Panthera Tigris)

- Lion (Panthera Leo)

- Jaguar (Panthera Onca)

- Leopard (Panthera Pardus)

This is a rather controversial list, as many zoologists believe that pumas, cheetahs and snow leopards (even Clouded leopards and lynxes) deserve a place too.

A few things that set these four cats apart from all others are:

- The arrangement of the bones in head. The Hyoid bone (which connects the tongue to the roof of the mouth) of Big Cats is incomplete in its ossification (the process of bones forming) causing a looser fit within the voicebox bones. Big Cats have an elastic segment within the hyoid whereas those of the small cats are hard all over. Also the larynx of Big Cats is formed differently (slightly morphed) to those of all other cats. (NOTE: Snow Leopards also possess incomplete ossification of the hyoid, but the structure of the Snow Leopard's larynx is not morphed into the fashion of true big cats) The result of this arrangement and morphing gives the true 4 big cat species the ability to roar (and purr) while all other cats cannot roar.

Hyoid bone in human: (It's the bold black thing at the bottom in throat)


- The pupils are an identifiable feature for classing the big and small cats. Big Cats gave round pupils whereas the small cats tend to have slits or ellipses. This idea has its holes though, for example the lynx (classified as a small cat) has round pupils.

Tiger eye (big cat) -- round        Lynx (small cat) eye -- Round       Domestic Cat (small cat) eye -- Slit/Ellipse



- A scratchy (not fully scientific) way of classing the big cats is by weight/size. All 4 species grow to over 75kg when adults. Although, Male Pumas and Snow leopards are able to pip the 75kg mark which introduces confliction. Nevertheless, BIG cats are not named unaccordingly.

- Another way in which you can class big cats is by the fact that they tend to lay down while feeding. You may not notice it but when cats like Sand Cats (Felis Margarita), Margays (Felis Wiedi) and Ocelots (Felis Pardalis) etc. (all 'small cats') feed they have to either crouch or stand up to properly consume and digest their food. On the other hand, big cats are supposedly unable to stand while eating. Of course, there are exceptions, like the snow leopard which can stand or lie down or whatever it pleases!
NOTE: I heard this somewhere and have seen it on a few websites, as well as on a info-sign at the zoo; but I do not know of its credibility. Any disagreements are welcome/encouraged because of my unsurity.


In conclusion, I refer to a big cat by the true scientific term. Ocelots I refer to as big small cats, because it is true - they are in the larger half of small cats, at around 11-16kg (25-35 lb I think??).

Ocelot:

Originally posted by Hellios ... & Knights (our zoologist)

                  


Peace out

- Knights -







Edited by Knights - 15-Dec-2006 at 22:38