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Rights groups urge Pakistan to reform rape laws.

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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rights groups urge Pakistan to reform rape laws.
    Posted: 15-Nov-2006 at 01:10
"ISLAMABAD (AFP) - Pakistan's government must quickly honour its pledge to reform harsh Islamic rape laws, which expose female victims to charges of adultery, Human Rights Watch said."
 
"General Musharraf claims he is an 'enlightened moderate' in favor of women's rights, but so far he has been all talk and no action."
 
"Under current laws, women must produce four adult Muslim male witnesses to prove an act of rape."
 
Full story:
 


Edited by Hellios - 15-Nov-2006 at 01:10
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2006 at 16:19

zzzzzzzzzz..been discussed a thousand times.. 4 witnesses are not required to get a rape conviction in Pakistan and never have been.

 
US state dept acknowledges this (some US media can't seem to understand it)
 
Hadd punishments were mandatory if evidentiary requirements were met; for sexual offenses, four adult male Muslims must witness the act or the alleged perpetrator must confess. For non-Muslims or in cases where all of the 4 male witnesses were not Muslim, the punishment was less severe. The testimony of four female witnesses, or that of the victim alone, was insufficient to impose Hadd punishments; therefore, even if a man rapes a woman in the presence of several women, he cannot be subjected to the Hadd punishment. If Hadd punishment requirements were not met, the accused may be sentenced to a lesser class of penalties (Tazir); in practice most rape cases were tried at this level. Under Tazir a rapist may be sentenced to up to 25 years in prison and 30 lashes. No Hadd punishment has been applied in the more than 20 years that the Hudood ordinances have been in force. For Tazir punishments, there was no distinction between Muslim and non-Muslim offenders. According to AI, men accused of rape sometimes were acquitted and released, while their victims were held on adultery charges.
 
 
The Zina Ordinance provides two different punishments for the same offence depending on the nature of the evidence against the accused. For the hadd punishment of rajm (stoning to death), the offensive act should have been witnessed by four male, Muslim witnesses of good repute. If, however, the offence is proved by any other form of evidence, the Court can award punishment that may include a prison sentence as well as whipping. The latter category of sentences is subsumed under the heading of tazir, the technical term in Islamic Law for punishments that fall in the discretion of the state. The popular perception of the Zina Ordinance, largely based on the image carried in the press, is that a raped woman must produce four male witnesses against the accused for a conviction. The legal position that a conviction leading to a tazir punishment can be maintained on the basis of other evidence, including that of the woman herself, is generally absent in the popular understanding of the Zina Ordinance.
 


Edited by TeldeInduz - 15-Nov-2006 at 16:27
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 00:21
Tele, a few yeras ago we gave the exact same explaniation to a group of "human rights" visitors. And when they sent their report back, it was the same old story. When confronted, they admitted understanding what we said, but answered that they could not do without the funding.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 01:25
It is indeed a tyranny for the females in Pakistan. They have to face inhuman hurdles at every step of their lives.
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 01:30
How Pakistan's rape reform ran aground
By Barbara Plett
BBC News, Islamabad

Pakistan's government has put a controversial women's rights bill on hold, throwing into turmoil efforts to reform hardline Islamic laws on rape.

Women pass a poster of President Musharraf
President Musharraf had seemed keen to reform the law for women
Secular parties are furious after the draft law was amended to appease Pakistan's ultra-conservative Islamic parties.

Now the authorities are scrambling to reach a broader consensus before trying for a fourth time to present the bill in parliament.

The imbroglio has been branded by human rights activists as a disaster for Pakistani women.

It is also seen as further evidence that the government of President Gen Pervez Musharraf remains dependent on the Islamists, despite his claims of promoting an Islam of "enlightened moderation".

Un-reported rapes

In Pakistan, rape is dealt with under Islamic laws known as the Hudood Ordinances. These criminalise all sex outside marriage.

So, under Hudood, if a rape victim fails to present four male witnesses to the crime, she herself could face punishment.

This has made it almost impossible to prosecute rape cases.

According to the country's independent Human Rights Commission, a woman is raped every two hours and gang-raped every eight hours in Pakistan.

These figures are probably an under-estimation as many rapes are not reported.

Government panic

Until his ruling party caved in, President Musharraf had seemed determined to reform the Hudood Ordinances.

Women protest against reforming the law
Women allied to the Islamist opposition protested against the bill

Despite vociferous objections from the Islamic parties - an alliance known as the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) - the bill had been approved by a parliamentary committee with the support of the main secular opposition Pakistan People's Party (PPP).

The committee proposed removing rape from religious law and putting it instead in the secular penal code, where normal rules of evidence would apply.

The MMA cried foul, threatening to resign en masse from parliament if the bill was passed.

And in a panic the government set up an extra-parliamentary committee of religious scholars to pacify the Islamists.

This said that rape should fall under both religious and secular law. It introduced a new, very broadly defined, category of "lewdness" into the penal code, and reinstated a clause giving the Hudood Ordinances pre-eminence over any law with which they might come into conflict.

Political isolation

Liberal political parties, civil and human rights activists and lawyers said these changes essentially eviscerated the reform, and allowed powerful religious lobbies to manipulate what is seen as a weak judicial system.

Mukhtaran Mai, rape victim turned campaigner
The case of rape victim Mukhtaran Mai heightened reform calls

They also denounced the government for bypassing parliamentary procedures.

Gen Musharraf must have known any changes to the Hudood Ordinances would raise the ire of the Islamists. Why then did his government collapse so rapidly before them?

Commentators suggest two reasons.

One is that his ruling party is divided, between those who want to keep a tacit alliance with the MMA, and those willing to push for a reform agenda in alliance with the opposition PPP, led by former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto.

The other is that rarely have President Musharraf and his military-led regime been so isolated.

They are now opposed by all save one of the secular and nationalist parties, with even the Islamists threatening street protests.

Alliance intact

The president has been condemned at home for using excessive force against nationalist rebels in the restive province of Balochistan, and abroad for striking a peace deal with pro-Taleban tribesmen in the tribal area of North Waziristan.

Assailed on all sides, the president's only certain support is the military - and the Pakistani army is not prepared to take on the Islamists over women's rights.

So after a week of parliamentary and extra-parliamentary shenanigans, the alliance of military and mullah that has governed Pakistan for the last seven years appears shaken but intact.

Women remain at the mercy of fundamentalist legislation.

And Gen Musharraf's message of "enlightened moderation" seems intended more for foreign than local consumption.



Edited by Hellios - 16-Nov-2006 at 01:37
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 01:39
The situation in  India is also very sad. I had started a thread about an innocent poor low caste muslim woman called Imrana Bibi, who used to be raped by her Father in law & tortured when she opposed him, when she complained to the police, the Indian Islamic court of law instead of punishing the rapist & incestous father in law asked the poor rape victim to treat her father in law as her husband, her husband, with whom she used to sleep every day for the past ten years & who had fathered five children from her as her son.

Because this poor girl had the courage to approach the Hindu police, she was saved (her parents happen to live in a hindu majority village & got their support.),

But their are still three similiar poor , low caste  muslim   women  who were similarly raped by their father in laws & relatives continuously, but have not got justice, because they did not have the courage to approach the police. The Indian Islamic courts have ordered the helpless rape victims to treat their rapist fathers & relatives as their husbands, asked the poor women to divorce their original husband & treat them as Sons /  brothers after having slept with them for years & having nurtured their children.



Edited by Vivek Sharma - 16-Nov-2006 at 01:49
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 01:50
This is called the draconian "Hudood" law.

Edited by Vivek Sharma - 16-Nov-2006 at 01:51
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 03:46
Originally posted by Hellios

How Pakistan's rape reform ran aground
By Barbara Plett
BBC News, Islamabad

Pakistan's government has put a controversial women's rights bill on hold, throwing into turmoil efforts to reform hardline Islamic laws on rape.

 
Old news & inaccurate news also.
 
..The lower House has just recently passed the Bill for the amendments to the current laws..in fact the Bill was passed in its original form. So there's no reform that ran aground at all in that piece of fiction, and the Bill has now been passed in its original form, or the "select commitee plus" version.
 
NA passes Women Protection Bill

Afzal Bajwa
ISLAMABAD - The National Assembly on Wednesday passed the much talked about Protection of Women Bill which Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said is the Select Committee plus version.
http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/nov-2006/16/index1.php
 


Edited by TeldeInduz - 16-Nov-2006 at 03:48
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 03:53
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

The situation in  India is also very sad. I had started a thread about an innocent poor low caste muslim woman called Imrana Bibi, who used to be raped by her Father in law & tortured when she opposed him, when she complained to the police, the Indian Islamic court of law instead of punishing the rapist & incestous father in law asked the poor rape victim to treat her father in law as her husband, her husband, with whom she used to sleep every day for the past ten years & who had fathered five children from her as her son.

Because this poor girl had the courage to approach the Hindu police, she was saved (her parents happen to live in a hindu majority village & got their support.),

But their are still three similiar poor , low caste  muslim   women  who were similarly raped by their father in laws & relatives continuously, but have not got justice, because they did not have the courage to approach the police. The Indian Islamic courts have ordered the helpless rape victims to treat their rapist fathers & relatives as their husbands, asked the poor women to divorce their original husband & treat them as Sons /  brothers after having slept with them for years & having nurtured their children.

 
The same thing happens in Hindu Indian communities oddly enough.
 
Though the victim's family members were demanding action against the accused, the panchayat directed the boy's family, also a Dalit, to keep the girl as his wife.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 03:57
Originally posted by TeldeInduz

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

The situation in  India is also very sad. I had started a thread about an innocent poor low caste muslim woman called Imrana Bibi, who used to be raped by her Father in law & tortured when she opposed him, when she complained to the police, the Indian Islamic court of law instead of punishing the rapist & incestous father in law asked the poor rape victim to treat her father in law as her husband, her husband, with whom she used to sleep every day for the past ten years & who had fathered five children from her as her son.

Because this poor girl had the courage to approach the Hindu police, she was saved (her parents happen to live in a hindu majority village & got their support.),

But their are still three similiar poor , low caste  muslim   women  who were similarly raped by their father in laws & relatives continuously, but have not got justice, because they did not have the courage to approach the police. The Indian Islamic courts have ordered the helpless rape victims to treat their rapist fathers & relatives as their husbands, asked the poor women to divorce their original husband & treat them as Sons /  brothers after having slept with them for years & having nurtured their children.

 
The same thing happens in Hindu Indian communities oddly enough.
 
Though the victim's family members were demanding action against the accused, the panchayat directed the boy's family, also a Dalit, to keep the girl as his wife.


Thanks dear for showing your frustration so clearly. A relief for me.
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 04:02
Wacko
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 04:06

Thanks dear for showing your frustration so clearly. But you disappoint me, for I would have at least expected some irrational theorization & absurd logic from you to back up the ten worded byproduct of your frustration, alleged by you above.

Now don't tell the world that the persons manning these Indian islamic courts are genetically different just because they also like to  shy away from their origins like you.

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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 04:29
LOL
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 05:03
Frustration repeated by a different person.

Different personalities, Identical mentalities ! With this it is not dificult to understand the plight of the women mentioned in the topic ! May god save them.




Edited by Vivek Sharma - 16-Nov-2006 at 05:05
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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2006 at 04:02
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

understand the plight of the women mentioned in the topic ! May god save them.
May god save them all, Hindu, Muslims, Sikh, Christians, Jews..etc
I think the problem goes deep into the judicial system of India for allowing all those various communities (the Muslim lady case or the Hindu lady case) to be under the mercy of skewed rational and laws of their communities that does not go beyond tribal reasoning and backward mentalities. Extremely sad that a progressing country like India still allow such cases to pop up. If their excuse was not to offend the minority (Muslims), then what is their excuse for the cases of Hindu ladies? not to offend the majority too? or I guess not to offend the offenders?!
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2006 at 04:37
In the case of the hindu girl, they had a small affair sometime back, Both parties are trying to work out a marriage as an option. Nobody is forcing them. The police have booked the culprit & are proceeding slowly as a marriage is on the cards. But these people are not related as father in law & daughter in law.

In the case of muslims, the problem is India's democracy. They constitute the biggest vote bank in the country & all political parties except the BJP will go to any extent to gather their votes.
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2006 at 11:04
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

In the case of the hindu girl, they had a small affair sometime back, Both parties are trying to work out a marriage as an option. Nobody is forcing them.
 
Noone is forcing them! So why does it say that the the boy's family were "directed" by the Hindu "scholars" to keep the rape victim as a wife?
 
"Though the victim's family members were demanding action against the accused, the panchayat directed the boy's family, also a Dalit, to keep the girl as his wife."
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2006 at 15:39
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

Frustration repeated by a different person.

Different personalities, Identical mentalities ! With this it is not dificult to understand the plight of the women mentioned in the topic ! May god save them.


 
LOLLOL
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2006 at 21:00
Originally posted by TeldeInduz

 
Noone is forcing them! So why does it say that the the boy's family were "directed" by the Hindu "scholars" to keep the rape victim as a wife?
 


That is a punishment to the boy, who went back on his committments made to the girl during their affair. The Panchayat is ensuring that he keeps his committment.


Unlike the muslim panchayats which are still supporting the rape of sisters, daughters etc.. by their family members & converting erstwhile wives into mothers, daughters into wives, husbands into sons & making a mockery of all relations.

Off course I am not saying that you should not support them. Off course you would to guard your belief. I have no problems with that.  in a free society, everybody has a right to his belief.


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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Nov-2006 at 21:03
Coming back to the subject, Mukhtar Mai's case is a great testimony of the reality. 
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