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Topic: About the study of african history. Posted: 17-Jun-2007 at 04:09 |
Originally posted by pinguin
Well, I don't think Toynbee is wrong.
Subsaharan African didn't develop an atonishing original civilization. I don't think that is racism but just stating a fact. Other peoples like the North Central Asian Nomads, the Samis, the Ainus, the Australians, the Amazonians and the Polynesians didn't develop an original civilization either. They developed cultures but not original civilizations.
That doesn't mean they are "inferior" people at all. It is just the way it was.
Now, that doesn't mean the Subsaharan Region don't have marvels that are worth to study, starting by Zimbabwe, Eredo and the Ife brozes.
Pinguin
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your definition of civilization seems a little 'old' for my tastes. And I don't think you fully grasp the complexity of those regions civilizations.
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Posted: 17-Jun-2007 at 11:10 |
Civilization: urban culture based in cities.
Some caracteristics:
* Stone building
* highways
* Writing
* Large scale burocracies.
* Hierarchical armies
* Formal religions based on "writings"
* Large scale commerce and money.
* Intensive agriculture
* Large civil works.
* Original style of arts
* Original literature
* Phylosophy and science
As I say before, there can be outstanding cultures without being civilizations. For example: Easter Island culture
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Cywr
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Posted: 17-Jun-2007 at 14:56 |
You don't really need stone buildings, besides, that would exclude early Mesopotanian cities, they didn't have access to much stone, so they developed the most sophisiticated ancient brick making industry to compensate for it. No, building material is irrelevant, its the pattern of settlement, division of labour (along with the hierachies and whatnot) and supremacy over other settlements that makes the City what it is, and this gives you civilisation. Arguably writting isn't necessary either, just an accounting system of sorts, Inca knots being perhaps the most famous example.
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Arrrgh!!"
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Posted: 17-Jun-2007 at 16:32 |
Yes, you are right. I forgot Mesopotamians. It is a matter of pattern of settlements, division of labour and compexity of the society.
Pinguin
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think
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Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 06:17 |
And the people of the Mediterranean sea share a history. That's all |
yet does that even include Spain or Portugal, were these "blond Barbarians" much different from the Barbarians in Your ancestral region.
Honestly,Ancient Greece gets too much glory in the West when they had little effect on the majority of europeans. So in that i guess Greece is sort of more of Medditerranean power/culture but your ancestral homeland of Spain is not in the same boat as Greece because your culture, history etc etc came well after the Greeks an even the Romans (Just like the rest of the Barbarians) an the only reason Spain achieved greatness was because they kicked out their "fellow" medditeranean Muslims.
Edited by think - 11-Jul-2007 at 06:19
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Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 16:52 |
Originally posted by think
yet does that even include Spain or Portugal, were these "blond Barbarians" much different from the Barbarians in Your ancestral region.
Honestly,Ancient Greece gets too much glory in the West when they had little effect on the majority of europeans. So in that i guess Greece is sort of more of Medditerranean power/culture but your ancestral homeland of Spain is not in the same boat as Greece because your culture, history etc etc came well after the Greeks an even the Romans (Just like the rest of the Barbarians) an the only reason Spain achieved greatness was because they kicked out their "fellow" medditeranean Muslims.
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Curious way to see things that doesn't match reality. You should visit Andalucia.
Spain is a country both Mediterranean and "European". Yes, Iberians, Celts and Germans colonized Spain, but also Phoenician, Carthagian, Jew and Arab; besides Greek and Roman.
When Spain kicked out Muslims, they kicked out their own people, because there wasn't a racial barrier between the Muslims that when out and the Spaniards that remained. And Spain achieved a mediocre greatness that could have been a lot greater if it would kept its Muslims but particularly its Jewish people.
The blond barbarians of the North also have certain peculiar way of being that Spain inherit. Particularly the warrior spirit of the reconquista and of the conquistador come from those germanic roots. But, to tell you the truth, the culture was in the South a lot more than in the North.
By the way, the last Moor of Spain was pale and blond blue eyed.
Pinguin
Edited by pinguin - 11-Jul-2007 at 16:53
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think
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Posted: 12-Jul-2007 at 01:43 |
The blond barbarians of the North also have certain
peculiar way of being that Spain inherit. Particularly the warrior
spirit of the reconquista and of the conquistador come from those
germanic roots. But, to tell you the truth, the culture was in the
South a lot more than in the North |
How did the reconqista come from Germanic roots ?
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