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Alarm in Spain over al-Qaeda call for its "reconqu

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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Alarm in Spain over al-Qaeda call for its "reconqu
    Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 19:54
Does Islam have the right to retake land once under the banner of Islam, even though the lands were taken by the sword. I tend to believe that most Muslims do not agree with this, but if you are a Muslim who does agree with reconquest of former Muslims lands then please tell us why. What is your justification??? Would Greece and other Balkan countries be next for al-Qaeda or another group? I am sure there are a few who dream about a restored Ottoman Empire, just like a few Greeks dream of a restored Byzantine Empire.

Alarm in Spain over al-Qaeda call for its "reconquest"
Alarm in Spain over al-Qaeda call for its "reconquest"
We have warned about this for years, but what do we know?

An update on this story: "NEWS FEATURE: Alarm in Spain over al-Qaeda call for its 'reconquest,'" by Sinikka Tarvainen for DPA:

Madrid (dpa) - The emergence of a new al-Qaeda-linked organization in Northern Africa is alarming Spain, which is concerned about Islamists' calls for the reconquest of the country they regard as a lost part of the Muslim world. "We will not be in peace until we set our foot again in our beloved al-Andalus," al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb said on claiming responsibility for an attack which killed at least 24 people in Algiers on Wednesday.
Al-Andalus is the Moorish name for Spain, parts of which were ruled by Muslims for about eight centuries until the last Moorish bastion, Granada, succumbed to the Christian Reconquest in 1492.

The terrorists will undoubtedly attempt to extend their offensive from Northern Africa to European soil, anti-terrorism judge Baltasar Garzon warned, cautioning that Spain was at a "very high risk" of suffering an Islamist attack.

The reference to al-Andalus was not the first by al-Qaeda, which has also vowed to put an end to the Spanish "occupation" of the enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla on the Moroccan coast....

The Algerian-based al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, formerly known as the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), intends to federate North African Islamist cells under a common umbrella.

Some of the people who could attack Spain may already be in the country, where nearly 80 per cent of prison inmates jailed on charges related to international terrorism have come from Northern Africa over the past five years.

Islamist radicals proselytize at an estimated 10 per cent of Spain's hundreds of unofficial mosques, which operate in garages, basements and the like.

Spain has become an important base for the recruitment of suicide bombers who are sent to Iraq, according to press reports. Some of the fighters are believed to be trained in new al-Qaeda camps in Sahel countries such as Mali, Niger or Mauritania.


http://www.eux.tv/article.aspx?articleId=6283
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 20:09

Islam does not have any rights in Spain. That country was invaded by Arabs and other Muslims and the logical reaction of locals was to expell the invaders. Christians won their own land back.

Muslims already killed 200 Spaniards during the Madrid bombings attack. If the thing start again I am pretty sure revenges will start. I just don't believe Spaniards won't react when foreigners, particularly Moors, start to kill Spaniards once again. Latinos could also begin to react to an attack on theirs "Mother Country": Spain.

The only thing Al-Qaeda is achieving is that Europeans start to think seriously in restricting the entrance of Muslims to Europe. And it could be the begining of more serious discriminations, even attacks, against Muslims in Europe.

Westerners just don't make the difference between Muslims and terrorists.

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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 20:14
I swear, al-Qaedia is a puppet of western fear-factories.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2007 at 21:15
al Qaeda does exist. Extremist exist in all kinds of groups, Muslims are the exception. The problem with Al Qaeda though is it doesn't need a single mastermind, atleast not anymore. Its basicly groups that swear allegiance to one idealology, and thats one that takes texts and interprets them into meaning warfare in the name of a god.
Al Qaeda's goal is sai to create a empire from Spain to Indonesia. While those incharge may have recruited a few, others around the world just joined because they may feel wronged in some way by the West, and maybe they listened to a radical Cleric, which is one of the reasons Osama changed to radicalism.
 
Their attacks won't be successful at all. They may have better odds in their own turf, but in Europe, they'll never be able to make any inroads to conquest. You just have to stop the bombings if and when they come.
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 00:47

al Qaeda is trying to make the Spanish and other Europeans paranoid about all Muslims. The fact is it's a fringe organization and shouldn't be treated like it represents Islam.

The best way to deal with this sort of thing is to strengthen ties between Muslims and other groups in Europe, not to be stampeded into action that is going to make things worse. This is phsycological warfare, nothing more.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2007 at 08:10
Meh. Europe has little to worry about, its N. Africa you should feel for, they're the ones who get the brunt of the bombing attacks.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 01:42
Originally posted by DukeC

al Qaeda is trying to make the Spanish and other Europeans paranoid about all Muslims. The fact is it's a fringe organization and shouldn't be treated like it represents Islam.

The best way to deal with this sort of thing is to strengthen ties between Muslims and other groups in Europe, not to be stampeded into action that is going to make things worse. This is phsycological warfare, nothing more.
 
Well, Spaniards lost 200 people already in a coward attack.
 
I don't think this is just phsycological. Now, playing with Spain is dangerous, particularly for a nation that was forged in a fight for freedom. Spain was an occupied country for more than 7 centuries, and that mentality is still there.
 
Spain is also known by its historical intollerancy. It is only recently that has become open minded. If events are not controlled they could start a process that sent back Spain to Inquisition times.
 
One of the first things that certainly will happen if things get worst is a massive rejection to Muslim immigration into Spain. Those feelings exist in Spain and just need a spark to start a chain reaction in there.
 
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 02:18
That's what I meant, al Qaeda is trying to cause animosity between muslims and the rest of the population in Spain and Europe. They want to cause fear that will result in a crackdown on all muslims, then benefit from the inevitable increase in recruits. An organization like al Qaeda can only exist if they have a perceived injustice to fight against, take that away and they'll just fade away.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 05:51
Agree with DukeC. If we assume that al-Qaedia wants to destroy the west, then there is only one achievable way to do this, that is to start a civil war in the west.

It doesn't and will never have the numbers to actually pose anything more than a nuisance to anyone. But if that nuisance causes the European non-muslims to attack the European muslims, which will then provoke a retaliation by the non-European muslims, then the west will be embroiled in war and turmoil once again, and al-Qaedia will have succeeded.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 05:53
Alarm?  as if such a thing is possible.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 10:47
The problem with radicals though is it only takes one to a handful to kill hundreds or thousands.
The thing with al Qaeda now is it's more like a Franchise. Groups take up the same cause and say they are apart of al Qaeda and they probably have no real conection with the big bosses.  Belief in a ideologies are very powerful. And it only takes a interpreting a belief one way to gain many followers. Then you have what Duke said, so giving people a cause, and telling them it's apart of their belief is a pretty deadly mixture for whoever their foe is.
I heard there are Christian groups in the US now training their children and themselves for the future "Holy War".
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 14:09
IMO this whole conflict is about power not religion.
 
As long as the west is backing leaders in the Persian Gulf and ME that don't really represent local interest, groups like al Qaeda are going to have support and spread. Most of what's been going on is based on the need to have what we consider to be stable governments in the oil producing nations or the ones around them, despite the effects on the people in the region.
 
It's a classic case of action and reaction, the more the west trys to control events in the ME and Persian Gulf, the more people there resent the lack of control in their everyday lives. Not only is oil contributing to climate change, it's also fueling much of the hostilities in the world.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 16:54
In full agreement with DukeC - well put.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 17:40
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

I swear, al-Qaedia is a puppet of western fear-factories.
 
Personally I've suspected he's really a closet baptist for a long time now.
 
 
 
Originally posted by eaglecap

Does Islam have the right to retake land once under the banner of Islam,
 
originally the whole world was pagan.
 
So one day we can expect ravaging hordes of new-agers to unleash terror and carnage upon the whole world.


Edited by Paul - 16-Apr-2007 at 17:44
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 18:05
The solution for Spain: Santiago Matamoros !Big%20smile
 
 
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 18:55
Well, actually I think - and our muslim friends can verify or otherwise - that in religious islamic texts it is explicitly stated that Muslim land must never be allowed to be taken by non-Muslims and must be reclaimed.  Perhaps this is the root of this ridiculous statement about reconquest.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 20:13
Originally posted by S&D

The thing with al Qaeda now is it's more like a Franchise. Groups take up the same cause and say they are apart of al Qaeda and they probably have no real conection with the big bosses.  Belief in a ideologies are very powerful. And it only takes a interpreting a belief one way to gain many followers.

I think that is a result of the reporting and not the actuallity. For example Abu Saief in the Phillipines is a resistance movement that has its roots in the American invasion of the Phillipines and Mindinao. It is now fighting against the phillipine government for an independent Mindinao, they existed long before al-Qaedia and have naught to do with it, so why are they now called al-Qaedia in the phillipines? Cause the Phillipino government wants american money and assistance in "the war against terror".
Well, actually I think - and our muslim friends can verify or otherwise - that in religious islamic texts it is explicitly stated that Muslim land must never be allowed to be taken by non-Muslims and must be reclaimed.  Perhaps this is the root of this ridiculous statement about reconquest.

It is explicitly stated that if your denied the freedom to practice your religion peacefully that you must fight (peacefully or otherwise) to regain that right. This doesn't necessarily translate into the above, but is often implicitly interpreted that way.

The root of feelings about Spain doesn't have anything to do with religion, it is entirely historical. 500 years of a Spanish genocide, inquisition, and highly anti-muslim laws leave a significant amount of resentment. It is not the reconqista that raises emotions but the expulsions and forced conversions.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 21:54
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

[quote=S&D]....The root of feelings about Spain doesn't have anything to do with religion, it is entirely historical. 500 years of a Spanish genocide, inquisition, and highly anti-muslim laws leave a significant amount of resentment. It is not the reconqista that raises emotions but the expulsions and forced conversions.
 
 
I am afraid Muslims were not precisely the victims in this case. When Muslims invaded the Iberian peninsulae 700 years before the reconquists, they rape and killed in large scale. A mass of Christians went under the control of the Muslims and some managed to offer resistence in northern Spain.
 
Now, it is true for sometime afterwards, Muslims behaved in a tollerant manner, but that was short lived. Around the 12th century they become quite fanatics and persecutions against theirs own Christians (Mozarabs) started once again. Invasions of Africans wipe out Christian armies in the frontiers. That was the beginning of the end for Muslims. For there on Christians won't stop fighting the invasors up to they get rid of them
 
That was what happened.
 
Once Queen Isabella got in power in an unified Spain, her first job was to insure to stop insurrection. That was done using the Inquisition.
 
It was a hard time for Christians. A time were they had to take very painful decissions, but everything was done to assure the integrity of Spain as a nation.
 
In short, if Muslims would have not changed their way of act in the 12th century, perhaps they could still have Al-Andalus. However, that behavoir was the one that wake up the Spaniards. Spain was just fighting for its own survival, and Spain and the Hispanic former colonies, consider the Reconquist a superb show of resistency to the invader. The reason of being of Spain.
 
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 22:18
So?
All your saying is that the Spanish bear resentment too. In fact using intolerances by the Almohads or Almovads to justify genocide is a really stupid argument.

As latin americans also felt the hard end of forced conversions and cultural assimilation I'm quite surprised that your defending it.


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 16-Apr-2007 at 22:20
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2007 at 22:40
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

So?
All your saying is that the Spanish bear resentment too. In fact using intolerances by the Almohads or Almovads to justify genocide is a really stupid argument.

As latin americans also felt the hard end of forced conversions and cultural assimilation I'm quite surprised that your defending it.
 
Which genocide are you talking about?
 
As far as I know what existed was mass deportation. That was a crime, indeed, and I am not in favor of that tragic part of the past of Spain. But it is well known that Spaniards preffered expell people rather than kill them.
Inquisition was more an instrument of terror than genocide, actually. The victims of Inquisition on all the centuries that existed were circa 3.000 people an no more. But the terror that siniester institution generated affected not only "unbelievers" but Spaniards and Hispanics themselves, up to modern times.
 
What I deffend of Spain are theirs Knights and warriors in fair battle. People like Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, The Cid. I don't deffend oppresion nor Inquisition. However, I do understand why Queen Isabella took such drastic measures.
 
As a Latin American I have Spanish and Native ancestors. Don't ask me I don't know the version of the Spaniards in the topic of the Reconquist LOL
 
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