Against Oblivion or the Denazification of the Mind

Originally posted by elenos <p ="Msonormal">I stand by what I said. A totalitarian state is where many of mechanisms of good government have been disabled.

Yes, but it's a state nonetheless.

You said , "It is debatable that under Hitler the German people had a state."

The definition of a state has nothing to do with the mechanisms of good government. It may have them, it may not.

Edited by edgewaters - 28-Jun-2007 at 06:25

eople seem to expect the next Hitler that shows up will be a sweaty German madman with a pitchfork. He'll more likely be a respectable gentleman in a nice suit, a popular politician both at home and abroad, just like he was last time. In this age, he'll probably also be a master of television media, have a slick PR firm with catchy slogans and colourful billboards, and a strong Internet following and presence.

The purpose of this example is not to demonize Britain or anyone else, but it is ridculous to expect only the Germans to be sorry for their crimes and conviniently forget others. Genocides have occured both before and after. The German or the Japanese should not singled out, or Jews, Roma, Poles, or Bengalis be singled out for special status as victims.

Under international law to change the system of jurisprudence to suit individual interests is to nullify the legality of state rulings.

So.....Saudi Arabia is not a state? Or Thailand? Or Cuba?

. Hitler introduced a code of laws that for instance made the killing of anyone that stood against the Nazi party as legal; there was no need for those who did to go to trial

In many countries treason during wartime is considered punishable by the death penalty. Did you know that in the United States, it was considered punishable with imprisonment to have any connections to the communist party. Does this mean that the American government in violation of international law of the time voided it's status as a state. Heck how about the internment camps the US used against it's own Japanese-German-Italian citizens. Did that void it's right to be recognized as a state?

Under such circumstances no other country could rightfully recognize the Nazi Party as a legal entity

1. TURKISH-GERMAN FRIENDSHIP TREATY, SIGNED IN ANKARA June 18, 1941

2. Pact Between the Axis Powers Barring a Separate Peace with the United States or Great Britain Dec 11, 1941

3. German-Soviet Cooperation, October 2, 1939 - May 29, 1940

Give me another definition of a state and I may probably agree with

A state is a political association with effective dominion over a geographic area

I was thinking more deeply, along the lines of the Todt Organization, a German company that used slave labor  forbidden under international laws of the time,

I would like to know which international laws you specify that forbade slave labor in other countries? Usually the protocol for international law are treaties that a nation agrees to uphold. The only international body that existed as a forum for international law, was the League of Nations at that time. And Germany had left the league in 1933.

The League of Nations did call for the abolition of slavery, and as such created a Slavery Commission to oversee this purpose. This led to a slavery convention and the members of the League signed it in 1926, however this was the year that Germany joined the league and thus did not participate in the Slavery Commission prior to the convention. Thus the slavery conventions rulings were only inherently approved of by the german government at the time.

The only other mentioned parts of slavery in the LoN is the Covenant of Nations signed in 1924 which states:

(a) will endeavour to secure and maintain fair and humane conditions of labour for men, women, and children, both in their own countries and in all countries to which their commercial and industrial relations extend, and for that purpose will establish and maintain the necessary international organisations; (b) undertake to secure just treatment of the native inhabitants of territories under their control;

This was also inherently signed, and effectively voided when Hitler left the LoN, which as ruler of a sovereign nation was his right to do so. Therefore at that point Germany was not subject to the LoN laws, and unless you can show me any treaties Germany signed after 1933 that it stated it would not have slavery. Then they didn't break any international laws....unless you mean laws that Germany chose not to agree to.

Originally posted by elenos Give me another definition of a state and I may probably agree with.

A state is just the sovereign civil government of a single country. It's different from a country or a nation because nations don't necessarily have a country and countries don't necessarily have a government, or its government may not have sovereignty over civil affairs (eg colonies or territories).

Examples of states include everything from Neolithic city-states ruled by priest-kings in ancient Mesopotamia to the governments of modern democracies.

US usage of the term is a legacy from its early history, under the Articles of Confederation: "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right"

US "states" ceased to be states with the adoptation of the US Constitution in 1788.

Countries like Australia using the term for subnational entities are also using the term as a historical legacy.

Edited by edgewaters - 03-Jul-2007 at 09:05

Originally posted by elenos I think "denazification of the of the mind" begins by understanding what a responsible state should provide

Peace, order, and good government of course. Nothing more, nothing less.

Government should be just what the word says. It has the same function in a country that a governor in an engine has in that system; it keeps things running smoothly. It shouldn't be there to promote any other sort of agenda, and should steer clear of populism and demagoguery, which were the twin engines of Nazi support.

Originally posted by elenos One Germany! One Fatherland! One Fuhrer! Surely this has to be the only way to peace, order and good government?

Populism and demagoguery are the way to war, chaos, and bad government.