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Man gets nine years prison for collecting manuals
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maqsad View Drop Down
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Posts: 928 		  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Man gets nine years prison for collecting manuals
    Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 12:15
...terror manuals to be precise. I thought the UK allowed posession of any written material provided you were not violating copyright or breaking any laws. Evidently they can just accuse you of being a "sleeper agent" and sentence you to 9 years now? Shocked

Wow whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Terror manuals collector jailed

MANCHESTER, England (AP) -- An immigrant to Britain who collected information about staging terrorist attacks was sentenced to nine years in prison Friday.

Omar Altimimi, 37, was convicted earlier this week of six counts of possessing material of use to terrorists and two counts of money laundering.

"You were indeed, as the prosecution contend, a sleeper for some sort of terrorist organization," Judge David Maddison said. "It is not known, when, if and how you might have been called upon to play your part."

Altimimi came to England from the Netherlands in 2002 and applied for asylum, but police have been unable to establish his true identity or nationality, prosecutors said.

The manuals in his possession included instructions on using gas canisters to make car bombs, prosecutors said.

There was no indication, however, that Altimimi had any connection to recent failed bombing attempts in London and Glasgow by terrorists using cars filled with petrol and gas canisters.

Co-defendant Yusuf Abdullah, 30, a native of Yemen who pleaded guilty to two counts of money laundering, was sentence to two years in jail.

Tony Porter, who heads the Greater Manchester Police counterterrorism unit, said Thursday that Altimimi "appears to have been a 'sleeper' remaining in the shadows waiting and preparing for action."

Prosecutors said Altimimi was linked to terrorists in the Netherlands and to Junade Feroze, who was sentenced to 22 years in prison last month for his part in a bomb plot led by Dhiren Barot.

Barot, 35, a British convert to Islam, was convicted of planning to use vehicles packed with explosives to attack targets in London or New York. Prosecutors also charged that Barot also had drawn up plans to build and detonate a so-called dirty bomb, which combines radioactive materials with conventional explosives.

Barot was sentenced to life in prison.

Altimimi was arrested in March last year on suspicion of money laundering, involving $54,610 dollars which was stolen from the Yemen Tourist Board. At the time of his arrest Altimimi was attempting to withdraw funds transferred to him by Abdullah, police said.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/07/06/uk.manuals.ap/index.html
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maqsad View Drop Down
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Posts: 928 		  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 12:26
I can see how he was a suspect for money laundering supposedly but terrorism? Here is how the judge decided to convict him:


"You were indeed, as the prosecution contend, a sleeper for some sort of terrorist organization," Judge David Maddison said. "It is not known, when, if and how you might have been called upon to play your part."


I dunno if this news report is missing some key piece of evidence or the UK court system has gone completely mad when it comes to suspecting and convicting muslims.
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Posts: 2967 		  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 17:45
this just proves that the US still has the most fair justice system in the world.
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 17:57
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

this just proves that the US still has the most fair justice system in the world.
 
 
As long as your white, and have money , sure.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 18:04
I wonder if they simply should have waited till he killed innocent civilians? Frankly, they took the right action to protect us.

Too bad they did not do the same to the unabomber Theodore Kaczynski before he killed all those people starting in 1978.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2007 at 19:24
Originally posted by eaglecap

I wonder if they simply should have waited till he killed innocent civilians? Frankly, they took the right action to protect us.

Too bad they did not do the same to the unabomber Theodore Kaczynski before he killed all those people starting in 1978.
 
 
Considering the charge, "guilty of posessing material of use to terrorists" we all should start turning ourselves in.  The entire internet is of use to them.  The material they seized can probably be downloaded from any one of a hundred sites. 
The other factors involved were what got him, the connections to other known operatives,  the money and they probably had him on tape as well.
 
 
And they would have done the same thing to ol' Ted, if they had known who he was.Confused
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 422 		  Quote Ovidius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 08:11
its in the terrorism act

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2000/20000011.htm

It carries a sentence of a Max 10years. look at section 57 here.
I think they have to prove that the material they have is actualled planned to be used for a terrorist attack. Now in this case, i think thats maybe a little questionable. Although, we don't know all the facts of the case. If it is a problem, it will just get quashed on appeal.

Its reactionary Legislation and I must admit I'm uncomfortable with such a conviction. It seems to me that because he's a Muslim and holds information on explosives, that he can be deemed a terrorist. Whereas, maybe, a White kid who was downloading information about Pipe bombs would still be seen as a vandal.

But like I say, we don't know the full details, I'm sure they will become available soon.

this just proves that the US still has the most fair justice system in the world.


Yes, because you put your extremists straight onto a plane and send them to Syria to be tortured until they admit they are guilty.
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 20:16

A more evil and sinister threat was unveiled at one UK airport this week than the discovery of the Muslim terror mastermind known as the 'collector'. It seems no one, and i mean no one, is safe from the ever watchful eye of the overzealous part-policeman, part-james bond. A breed of men donning uniforms have taken on their shoulders the burden of responsibility that goes beyond the call of duty, and if rock stars think they can get away with looking muslim at an airport they should think again. LOL

"Metallica: Terrorist threat?
(Friday July 06, 2007 05:30 PM)

Metallica singer James Hetfield was investigated by UK airport officials who believed he was a terrorist this week, it has been claimed.

The star was barred entry to Luton airport on Thursday and questioned by staff who were concerned about his appearance.

Fears that Hetfield might be involved in terrorism were apparently founded on his "Taliban-like beard", according to The Times.

He was allowed to leave the airport after a brief interrogation, when he persuaded officials that he was a rock star."
 
 
Luckily, he didn't get the Mendez treatment. Ironically, their music was used to torture Gitmo prisoners.
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Posts: 1458 		  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 07:14
I can go and read how to make a bomb with a mouse click. Maybe i'm a "sleeper" as well. I don't know, seems like the British government knows that better than me - a person with whom i have lived happily for 19 years, going on 20 now. Should mail the local British embassy here and ask if i am a worldwide threat to humanity. If i am lucky they'll likely ask for my government to ship me to their jails.

Edited by Kalevipoeg - 10-Jul-2007 at 07:17
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 07:34
It was surely not the collection of manuels alone that sentenced him. If the article is correct, he obviously had contacts with already known terrorists. If he still was innocent, he must have been extremely stupid and uncareful with his friends. 

I can't say I feel sorry for him. Preparation for a crime is still a crime.
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Posts: 928 		  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 08:38
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

It was surely not the collection of manuels alone that sentenced him. If the article is correct, he obviously had contacts with already known terrorists. If he still was innocent, he must have been extremely stupid and uncareful with his friends. 

I can't say I feel sorry for him. Preparation for a crime is still a crime.


What do you mean he obviously had contacts with known terrorists? He only had contact with one money launderer. This is what the judge said to him:

"It is not known, when, if and how you might have been called upon to play your part."

Does the judge mention WHO would call upon him? No. The money launderer maybe? But if that were so then why was the Money Launderer not convicted for terrorism? Who are these mysterious terrorists with supernatural powers to "call upon" anyone who downloads a PDF file with sketches of amateur bombs?
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Posts: 1457 		  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 08:59
How is it that these guys go to another country, break the law and plead not guilty and then sob on the public shoulder when copping a sentence? Every night of the week we hear of that same story, over and over again, happens in countries that have been kind enough to take them in!  

Edited by elenos - 10-Jul-2007 at 09:03
elenos
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Posts: 928 		  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 11:18
Better details from his hometown's newspaper, that yahoo article I found originally sucked. This one from The Bolton News is so much better:

To his neighbours in Bolton, Omar Altimimi was a normal, doting father who watched from the windows as his three children played with other youngsters.

He made efforts to become part of the Tonge Moor community and, although quiet, would acknowledge locals as he passed them in the street.

But behind the facade, he harboured sinister links to the world or terrorism.

A "congenital liar" according to police, his English is excellent - until he is questioned closely, when he claims not to understand.

He also claimed not to know how to use computers, another lie exposed in court.

He first told officers he was an Iraqi brought up in Yemen, but he also had a Home Office identity card in the name of Abu Hawas.

Altimimi is officially a Dutch national, with a Netherlands passport, and before coming to the UK lived in a one-bedroom flat at 64a Vledstraat in Rotterdam.

This was raided by Dutch police as part of their own investigation and bags filled with forged documents and jihad material were recovered.

Others linked to the same flat were Jerome Curtailler, now serving six years in Holland for terrorism, and Rachid Messoukat, convicted of terrorism in France but now on the run.

Neighbours in Lansdowne Road have described the father-of-three as a normal, but slightly introverted man.

"We never saw a lot of him in the 18 months he lived here but his kids were quite well known," said one.

"His eldest son was particularly well-known and he came round my house a few times because he was the same age as my son.

"All three of his kids played in the streets with local kids and they seemed very polite, gentle and Westernised, even though the parents didn't seem to have been born in this country.

"The bloke seemed fairly quiet and I think I only ever spoke to him once. I don't think anybody really got to know him.

"They appeared to be a normal family in every way, so people were shocked when the police turned up and started taking things away.

"When it turned out to be a terrorist investigation, there was a bit of concern and it was the talk of the street for a few days, but people just eventually got on with their lives."

No actual plot or explosive substances were ever recovered during the investigation of Altimimi - he came to the attention of police only through a fraud investigation.

And even now police still do not know his true identity.

But it appears inconceivable the terror manuals he hoarded were not, at some point, to be used with murderous effect when the "sleeper" awoke.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/display.var.1524824.0.neighbours_knew_only_a_dotng_father.php
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Posts: 928 		  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 12:32
I cannot believe this, I came across a link to a video interview with the guy. Looks like an actual interrogation! Too bad my sound card is not working but when I fix it then you can be sure I will check it out

http://manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/v/1010625/0_omar_altimimis_interview_with_police.html
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Posts: 3638 		  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 04:39
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

this just proves that the US still has the most fair justice system in the world.
 
another great joke of ponce, worth to be recorded to the hall of fame.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 05:45

What exactly constitute a terror manual? A wikipedia article on gunpowder? An article in the Times saying such ans such places are vulnerable?

A conspiracy under common law means that the things are supposed to be more than just preparatory, definatly more than a thought given to an act. THis is ridiculous, sure if he has equipment and a list of targets drawn up in his house, you could reasonably say, that it is suspicious, but a terror manual is pushing the envolope too far.
 
I expect the FBI to be knocking at my door soon, I visit skyscrapercity.com, I have a model of a 747 on my desk at work, great, hope the bay at Guantanamo is as beautiful as Rummy said it was .
 
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