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    Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 10:57
Originally posted by aknc

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

No. It is some Greeks like the ones who are responsible for the murdering innocent children and families violently. Thanks our army for their justice delivery to those murderers...

Oguzoglu your claim is right but do not make turkey the side that refuses unification.As you know Turkey accepted the annan plan but it was turned down by the greeks.We are the side that wants peace.

I agree. My post can be understood wrongly in purpose. We realized who wanted peace and who wanted war in Cyprus, with the votes of both Turkish and Greek sides...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 12:03

Originally posted by aknc

Oguzoglu your claim is right but do not make turkey the side that refuses unification.As you know Turkey accepted the annan plan but it was turned down by the greeks.We are the side that wants peace.

I have to say your sense of humour needs some adjustment. After capturing a  part of a sovereign country and keep it under military occupation, after keeping an island divided by military force, with thousands of people still away from their homes, denied access by an occupying military force to their homes and goods (goods that have been seized by military force and around 100.000 settlers, Turkey has brought in post 1974 to aid in changing the demographics of the sparsely populated by Turkish-Cypriots North...), while more than 1.500 people are missing since the 1974 invasion by the Turks, and even today people are loosing their lives for protesting against the illegal occupation...your quote about your country wanting...peace seems like a very bad joke.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 12:40

Illuminati wrote :

No.  The fact that you denied any atrocities by the Greeks only goes to show that you are blind. Neither side is necessarily the good guy here, and neither side is necessarily the bad guy. Placing all blame unjustly on the other side is the reason why there is not real progress on this issue. There were many people murdered by the Greeks. Don't be so ignorant as to say that this is all 100% Turkey's fault. Because attitudes like that are the reason there is not progress in alleviating the situation.

Did i denied that Greeks have also done attrocities ?? I guess not . I merely stated that u cannot equalize murderers and victims. Greeks , oppressed for eons by the Turks , characterized as "reayas" , a status equal to a human animal , an animal that ANY Turk could even kill without apologizing to any one , to any court of justice , have reacted and done attrocities to their oppressors as well .....but the 2 actions cannot be equalised.Show me one people that revolutionised for their freedom and did not commit attrocities to his oppressors...Show me a peaceful revolution...and we will agree.

Both sides have perpetuated this problem. Blaiming it completely on one side only shows that you nothing more than ignorantly blinded by nationalism.

As for what both sides have done. While Greek Cypriots were fighting the British for the freedom of the island , Turkish Cypriots have alligned themselves with the British occupying forces , against the Greek Cypriots and this was BEFORE Cyprus became the Democracy of Cyprus.
So as i said , read your history lessons , before passing any judgment

Isk.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 13:28

Alparslan wrote :
 
-Temper Alp...temper...relax.

If Greek side accepted the UN plan Turkish army would leave the island gradually.

-The question is WHEN ?? After 20 years ?? No thanks. Withdraw ur forces , let UN armed forces take over , withdraw all the immigrants that u have brought to the island changing the demography of the Turkish Cypriots population and then we might accept the A(u)nnan plan.

What are you talking brainwashed man?

-Me brainwashed ?? Comming from u Alp , sounds like a compliment...thank u.

But you are right about your statement that  "u have not following ur History lessons ".  YOUR lessons cannot be described as lessons but sessions. And your schools are backward institutions causing hate and fascism between two nation.

-Oh yes...and ur madrassas are pools of light and truth...Spare me the laughing Alp...Like another friend of urs , Seko , u people seem to have a great sense of humour.

You are saying that "we did not invite Turks to Cyprus". You have to learn a bit history. In Cyprus a coup d'etat has been made by Greece's colonel junda in 1974 to annex the island with Greece. Turkey as a guarantor state of the republic of Cyprus established in 1960, has the right to intervene the island and we did it. Turkish Cypriots have suffered since 1963 since Turks have been expelled from government after 1963 and their lands confiscated by illegal Greek Cypriot government. Why illegal? Since according to founding treaty of Cyprus Turks should be represented in the state too. Anyway your lovely EOKA members who were devoted right wing militants were very active on the islands. Today's president of Cyprus, Mr. Papadopoulos is one of the members of EOKA.

- Yes , Papadopoulos was a member of EOKA , fighting the British occupation forces to free Cyprus , as Ntektash was the founder of TNT , an organization like EOKA , but Turkish , fighting alongside with the British , against EOKA to keep the island under British occupation.Lovely ehhh ?? By the way did Makarios invited u to STAY , or to reestablish the democratic order in Cyprus ?? Did Makarios , invited u to the island to stay , offering 38% of it to u ?? Be serious...u r producing waves of laughter..

DO YOU WANT ME POST HERE SOME PICTURES ABOUT THEIR MASSACRES????

-Go ahead...Photoshop can produce miracles..I can produce just the same pictures from ur acts of peace..One question...though.How many MISSING soldiers do u had in ur peaceful invasion ??

What reayas are you talking about? Are we still live in Ottoman Empires times. But having a church priest as a president it is for sure that your minds are still a few hundred years backward.

-What "reayas" i am talking about ?? I am talking about the human-animals that u had under ur occupation for hundreds of years ....Greeks , Armenians , Arabs , Bulgarians , Serbs , u name it u have it...they all have the best sentiments for u. Look at who gave u help in ur earthquake situation....Only the stupid Greeks ..NOONE ELSE. Well we may have from time to time priests in political position , but we still dont have anything like the "saria"...simply put. Our religion DOES NOT PRODUCE LAW..And if we , having a priest in a political position , are a few hundred years backward...then take the position that is suitable for u , hundreds of years , thousand of years ....ur choise.

If you want to fight you have to be ready to die. But you want to kill without being killed. If you are killed in a war do not cry like little babies. Be and fight like a warrior or live in peace together. But you are failing to achieve any of them.

-As for fighting , keep ur voice low . There is no war that was fought without Greeks. While we were suffering for 4 years under the fascists , u were palying cards.Remember what Churchill said :Greeks dont fight like heroes , heroes fights like Greeks...U r perfect in fighting women and children ( genociding ) , but against Wermacht u were "neutral"...Keep ur horses...

Blackmail?????  In fact I have understood that it cannot live together with people like you. Cyprus should be divided in two part. I am almost sure that ANY solution which will end up with unification will bring war not peace.

-Blackmail ??? Of course NOT... U dont blackmail some vagabond while , forcing him to become a law abiding citizen . U help him . And as u say...Divided ?? meaning another forced Turkish expansion ?? Ok ..so be it. Stay where u are ..and we will stay where we are...

I was in favor of unification but I have to admit that I have mistaken. Or before reunification, it must be built some rehabilitation centers for people like you.

-I am still in favor for reunification , but NOT under ur ruling .Unification can only be achieved without any armed ocupational forces and ONLY with the Turkish Cypriots , not any brought up from Anatolia people , who deserve a better future , of course , but ONLY as lawfull imigrants....Not colonising forces.

Isk.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 13:53

TheDiplomat wrote:

Taner Akam a historian?

C'mon guys...you are  members of history forum..You are supposed to be history-lovers...You are supposed to place higher value on history than other people.You are supposed to know historian's value for society much better than anyone else..

Being a historian must not be that cheap.


-A historian ?? A social researcher ?? whatever. Taner Aksam is analyzing an historic event and the reasons that produced it . Not only this one , but also the reasons behind the Turkish way of behaviour .
The great laugh is that "he is not a Turkish citizen" , therefore he is lying , he is a dog and all the colorfull names that Turks give to him...And this , because he dares to be NOT politically correct , and speaks the truth.
Not surprising...

Isk.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:00
Originally posted by Aeolus

Originally posted by aknc

Oguzoglu your claim is right but do not make turkey the side that refuses unification.As you know Turkey accepted the annan plan but it was turned down by the greeks.We are the side that wants peace.

I have to say your sense of humour needs some adjustment. After capturing a  part of a sovereign country and keep it under military occupation, after keeping an island divided by military force, with thousands of people still away from their homes, denied access by an occupying military force to their homes and goods (goods that have been seized by military force and around 100.000 settlers, Turkey has brought in post 1974 to aid in changing the demographics of the sparsely populated by Turkish-Cypriots North...), while more than 1.500 people are missing since the 1974 invasion by the Turks, and even today people are loosing their lives for protesting against the illegal occupation...your quote about your country wanting...peace seems like a very bad joke.

 

Are you even reading our posts???Whe have been saying that our army was only there to stop the bloody arnage of the greeks.Finding humour in real life.That's funny.Let me ask;who refused the annan plan????

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:02
Originally posted by iskenderani

TheDiplomat wrote:

Taner Akam a historian?

C'mon guys...you are  members of history forum..You are supposed to be history-lovers...You are supposed to place higher value on history than other people.You are supposed to know historian's value for society much better than anyone else..

Being a historian must not be that cheap.


-A historian ?? A social researcher ?? whatever. Taner Aksam is analyzing an historic event and the reasons that produced it . Not only this one , but also the reasons behind the Turkish way of behaviour .
The great laugh is that "he is not a Turkish citizen" , therefore he is lying , he is a dog and all the colorfull names that Turks give to him...And this , because he dares to be NOT politically correct , and speaks the truth.
Not surprising...

Isk.

We have thausands of ripped,raped bodies,burned houses and you dare to say that tamer akam is saying the truth,you are no longer discussing history,you are writing an urban legend

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:05
Originally posted by Aeolus

Originally posted by aknc

Oguzoglu your claim is right but do not make turkey the side that refuses unification.As you know Turkey accepted the annan plan but it was turned down by the greeks.We are the side that wants peace.

I have to say your sense of humour needs some adjustment. After capturing a  part of a sovereign country and keep it under military occupation, after keeping an island divided by military force, with thousands of people still away from their homes, denied access by an occupying military force to their homes and goods (goods that have been seized by military force and around 100.000 settlers, Turkey has brought in post 1974 to aid in changing the demographics of the sparsely populated by Turkish-Cypriots North...), while more than 1.500 people are missing since the 1974 invasion by the Turks, and even today people are loosing their lives for protesting against the illegal occupation...your quote about your country wanting...peace seems like a very bad joke.

 

1.500 sick murderers are missing and as Clark Gable said in the gone with the wind;

"Frankly my dear i don't give a damn!"

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:06

And as we talk about the peacefull invasion tof Turks , against Cyprus , after the request of president Makarios , who clearly was not aware of the tremendous implications , that his request would bring to his country , nor the death and the devastation that he brought unwillingly to his own people.

What follows , as in this foroum there r not only Turks and Greeks , is just an example of what this peace invasion brought . So that the third party , the non Turks and non Greeks , must learn and know.

online features
From Cyprus to Munich April 20, 1998
by Mark Rose

image

Fifteenth-century fresco from the Tree of Jesse stolen from Antiphonitis, Cyprus, and recently recovered in Germany (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations)

Following the occupation of northern Cyprus by Turkish forces in 1974, looters stripped the region's churches, removing an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 icons; several dozen major frescoes and mosaics dating from the sixth to the fifteenth century; and thousands of chalices, wooden carvings, crucifixes, and Bibles. Efforts by the Autocephalous Church of Cyprus and the Republic of Cyprus have resulted in the return of some of these objects, but the majority remain lost. A major breakthrough came this past October when Munich police arrested 60-year-old Aydin Dikman after he was videotaped selling stolen goods. The arrest was made possible by the cooperation of Dikman's former client, Dutch art dealer Michel van Rijn. In apartments rented by Dikman, police found frescoes, mosaics, and icons estimated to be worth more than $40 million. The artworks were taken to the Bavarian National Museum for evaluation, while Dikman was taken to prison. Criminal proceedings have begun against him for possessing and disposing of stolen goods, and, if convicted, Dikman faces up to 15 years in jail.

image Many of the looted frescoes were badly damaged when cut up and removed from churches in northern Cyprus. (left) [LARGER IMAGE] Fragment of a sixth-century mosaic from Church of the Panaga Kanakari, Cyprus, seized in Munich. (right) [LARGER IMAGE] (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) image

Dikman's participation in the depredation of Cypriot heritage in the occupied part of the island was suspected as early as 1982. He kept a low profile, however, working through dealers and seldom meeting directly with those who purchased items from him. Whether out of fear of retribution or unwillingness to jeopardize potential future acquisitions, those who knew that he was selling looted artworks from northern Cyprus did not reveal his identity to authorities. It was not until 1989 that the extent of his role became somewhat clearer through testimony in the Goldberg case, a legal battle in federal court in Indianapolis over Byzantine mosaics from Cyprus. That nearly nine years passed from Dikman's exposure in the Goldberg case to his arrest in 1997 is a troubling commentary on the lack of a concerted international effort to end the destruction and trafficking in Cyprus' heritage.

Speaking after Dikman's arrest, Athanassios Papageorgiou, an expert in Byzantine art who works for the Cypriot church, told Reuters, "We have managed to catch the mastermind of the whole smuggling operation." A chronology of what is known of Dikman's activities over the past two decades suggests that his role was a central one.

  1982. In the Turkish Cypriot weekly magazine Olay for May 17, 1982, Mehmet Yasin reports that Dikman was detained by security officials in Kyrenia the preceding week and was on a list of antiquities smugglers sought by police.

  1983-1984. The Menil Foundation of Houston, with approval of Cypriot government and church authorities, purchases from Dikman thirteenth-century frescoes of Christ Pantokrator ("All Sovereign") and the Virgin with archangels stolen from the Church of the Blessed Themonianos near the village of Lysi in northern Cyprus. In 1983 Dominique de Menil, Walters Hopps of the Menil Foundation, and Yanni Petsopoulos, a London dealer acting as an intermediary, examined the frescoes at a Munich apartment rented by Dikman. Funds for the acquisition were put in escrow and released only after the foundation took possession of the frescoes in 1984. (According to the deposition of Constantine Leventis, Cyprus' ambassador to UNESCO, taken in 1989 for the Goldberg trial, Petsopoulos offered the frescoes to the foundation for $850,000; the final price has not been disclosed.) Cut into 28 pieces when they were removed from the church, they required extensive conservation work. In November 1997, the restored frescoes, which will eventually be returned to Cyprus, were put on display in a specially constructed and consecrated Byzantine chapel in Houston.

image Church of the Panaga Kanakari, Cyprus (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) [LARGER IMAGE]

  1984. While at Dikman's apartment during the 1983 trip to Munich, Hopps and Petsopoulos notice a mosaic rondel, which the latter subsequently identifies as from the Church of the Panaga Kanakari at Lythrankom. The Kanakari mosaics, dated to 525-530, are among the few from the sixth century to have survived a subsequent iconoclastic period. The church, in northern Cyprus, was stripped between August of 1976, following the forced departure of the priest, and November 1979, when an English tourist reported to Cypriot authorities that it had been looted. According to Hopps' 1989 deposition for the Goldberg trial, Petsopoulos told him that later in 1983 he had made an impassioned plea that Dikman return the mosaic to Cyprus. Reportedly, Dikman let Petsopoulos have four rondels, some small pieces of mosaic, and a sack of loose tesserae, which he swore was all that he had from the church. The mosaics were returned to Cyprus on November 30, 1984. Two rondels proved to be modern, but the other mosaics--rondels depicting St. Bartholomew and St. Luke, and several fragments of the surrounding decorative frieze--were from Kanakari. The mosaics, badly damaged, were placed in the Byzantine Museum of the Archbishop Makarios III Foundation in Nicosia after two years of conservation work. For transportation costs involved in the return, Petsopoulos was reimbursed $2,113.89 by the Menil Foundation.

Four sixth-century mosaics from Kankari were recovered after a 1989 court case in Indianapolis. From left: the archangel Michael, Christ as a child, St. Matthew, and St. James (Click on images for larger versions.) (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations)

  1988. Indianapolis art dealer Peg Goldberg buys four Kanakari mosaics--the archangel Michael, the upper half of Christ as a child, and the apostles Matthew and James--from Dikman, Van Rijn, and American dealer Robert Fitzgerald for about $1 million. The following year, the Autocephalous Church of Cyprus and the Republic of Cyprus, alerted by J. Paul Getty Museum curator Marion True after Goldman attempted to resell the mosaics for $20 million, sued for the return of the mosaics in federal court in Indianapolis and won. The mosaics were returned to Cyprus in 1991 and were greeted by a crowd of nearly 50,000. They are now in the Byzantine Museum of the Archbishop Makarios III Foundation. Because they were badly damaged during their removal from the church, while being shipped, and in restoration work commissioned by Goldberg, it is unlikely the mosaics will ever be reinstalled in the church regardless of any changes in Cyprus' political situation.

  February 1997. Michel van Rijn approaches Tasoula L. Georgiou-Hadjitofi, honorary consul of Cyprus in The Hague and representative of the Autocephalous Church of Cyprus for stolen art, offering to help buy back three mosaics and 44 frescoes and asking for protection for himself and his family as well as a license to operate a casino in Cyprus (his decision to assist the Cypriots effectively ended his career as an art dealer). Georgiou-Hadjitofi receives approval from the church and the attorney general of the Republic of Cyprus to proceed and raises the equivalent of about $500,000 from the Cypriot church to fund the operation.

  September 5, 1997. Van Rijn brings the St. Thaddeus mosaic from Kanakari to the Cypriot Consulate in Hague and is paid a first installment.

image St. Thaddeus mosaic (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) [LARGER IMAGE]

  September 6, 1997. Van Rijn goes to Munich and buys 25 frescoes from Dikman via intermediaries using $75,000 of his own money. Returning to The Hague in a chartered business jet, he meets with Georgiou-Hadjitofi and Papageorgiou at a bank, where Papageorgiou identifies the frescoes as from the Church of Christ Antiphonitis near village of Kalogrea in northern Cyprus. Built in the twelfth century as a monastic church, it was decorated in the fifteenth century with frescoes of the Tree of Jesse (a pictorial genealogy of the descendants of Jesse) and the Last Judgment. In 1976, an English reporter informed the church that the frescoes had been removed, and this was confirmed by an Anglican priest who visited Antiphonitis in 1979. That same year a diplomat brought to Cypriot authorities pieces of cloth from the church to which fresco fragments adhered, evidence of the failed removal of some of the paintings. (In a separate case, the Cypriot church has begun a legal battle in the Netherlands to recover four sixteenth-century icons from Antiphonitis.) Van Rijn receives $168,000, of which $98,000 are expenses.

image

image image Above, fifteenth-century frescoes from Antiphonitis being inventoried after their recovery in 1997. They depict the Last Judgment, left, and Tree of Jesse, right. (Click on images for larger versions.) (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) image image

  September 7, 1997. Van Rijn drives back to Munich and arranges to purchase seven larger frescoes for $49,000.

  October 1997. Having recovered 32 frescoes and one mosaic, valued at $25 million, Georgiou-Hadjitofi decides to move on Dikman. Van Rijn and his intermediaries are granted immunity in the Netherlands, Cyprus, and Germany, and a sting is set up.

  October 9-19, 1997. Georgiou-Hadjitofi, Van Rijn, and two Interpol officers travel to Munich on October 9. Local authorities working with them include art investigators of the Bavarian Criminal Office in Munich. At about 6:00 p.m. the following day, during an exchange of money for Cypriot artworks between Dikman and Van Rijn's intermediaries, the police strike, raiding two apartments and recovering 14 cases and packages in which were icons, two Antiphonitis frescoes, and the mosaic of St. Thomas from Kanakari. A warrant is issued for Dikman's arrest, and he is taken into custody. During a second sweep, police find 20 more boxes and cases with icons, additional Antiphonitis frescoes, early Bibles, ancient pottery, statues, and coins in the basement of Dikman's residence, as well as $16,000 and 200,000 guilders ($100,000) in his apartment.

Among the documents, police find photographs of four fresco fragments from the Ayios Solomonis church. The actual fragments are not recovered, and are presumed to have been already sold. Near the village of Komi Tou Yalou in northern Cyprus, the church was built in the seventh or eighth century. Its ninth-century fresco of the Resurrection of Christ was preserved until 1984, when a foreign visitor informed the Department of Antiquities that paintings had been taken. The department later confirmed that the figure of an angel had been removed from the fresco.

Icons seized in Munich (Click on images for larger versions.)
(Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations)

  October 29, 1997. Cyprus begins extradition proceedings against Dikman.

  November 8, 1997. "The Lost Treasures of Cyprus" exhibition opens at Haags Gemeentmuseum with 32 frescoes from Antiphonitis and the Kanakari mosaic of St. Thaddeus.

  November 26, 1997. Police learn from Dikman's documents of a third apartment rented by him under a false name. In the cellar they find an additional 30 to 40 crates with 130 icons, 25 frescoes, two mosaics, other artifacts, and an unauthenticated Picasso.

image His Beatitude Chrysostomos I, center, Minister of Education Hadjinicolaou, and Michel and Frederique van Rijn view newly returned frescoes and mosaics at the Archiespiscopal Palace in December 1997. [LARGER IMAGE]

  December 22, 1997. The 32 Antiphonitis frescoes and the Kanakari mosaic recovered by Georgiou-Hadjitofi and temporarily exhibited in The Hague return to Cyprus.

  February 11, 1998. Police seize nine Byzantine icons from the Munich home of Greek dealer Seraphim Dritsoula. The icons, apparently from more than one church, had been purchased from Dikman.

ARCHAEOLOGY will follow the ongoing efforts of the Republic of Cyprus and the Autocephalous Church of Cyprus to recover antiquities and church treasures. It is clear from statements by Cypriot officials that the story is far from finished. According to Papageorgiou, Dikman collected "upon orders from people from Holland, the United States, Greece, and other countries with more knowledge than him." In the catalog accompanying The Hague exhibition, Georgiou-Hadjitofi wrote, "There are more dealers than [Van Rijn] who have touched our heritage. Some have provided limited information, some have kept quiet. What is clear is that we now have records and information about the initial deals that went on. For the record, the Dutch art dealer volunteered to co-operate for his own motives. Whatever they are, however, we still believe he has more information to offer. We will finish this jigsaw [puzzle] and there will be no more hiding behind a veil of indifference and half truths."

image Negotiations are underway to recover the royal doors from the Peristerona church, now at the Kanazawa College of Art, Kanazawa, Japan. (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) [LARGER IMAGE]

Today, Michel Van Rijn, who has received death threats as a result of his cooperation with authorities, is now under the protection of Scotland Yard.

Mark Rose is the Managing Editor of ARCHAEOLOGY.

This report was compiled from a variety of sources including A. Papageorgiou and T. Georgiou-Hadjitofi, eds., The Stolen Treasures of Cyprus (catalog of the October 25-December 22, 1977, exhibition in The Hague); P. Watson, "Crooked art dealer...," The Observer, October 19, 1997, p. 14; M. Yasin, "Perishing Cyprus," published in four installments of the Turkish Cypriot weekly magazine Olay beginning on April 26, 1982; press releases from the Cyprus News Agency; accounts in The Cyprus Weekly and Cyprus Mail; and documents from the 1989 case in U.S. District Court in Indianapolis, Autocephalous Greek-Orthodox Church of Cyprus and the Republic of Cyprus v. Goldberg & Feldman Fine Arts, Inc., and Peg Goldberg.

-----
1998 by the Archaeological Institute of America
www.archaeology.org/online/features/cyprus/

Isk.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:07
Originally posted by Aeolus

Originally posted by aknc

Oguzoglu your claim is right but do not make turkey the side that refuses unification.As you know Turkey accepted the annan plan but it was turned down by the greeks.We are the side that wants peace.

I have to say your sense of humour needs some adjustment. After capturing a  part of a sovereign country and keep it under military occupation, after keeping an island divided by military force, with thousands of people still away from their homes, denied access by an occupying military force to their homes and goods (goods that have been seized by military force and around 100.000 settlers, Turkey has brought in post 1974 to aid in changing the demographics of the sparsely populated by Turkish-Cypriots North...), while more than 1.500 people are missing since the 1974 invasion by the Turks, and even today people are loosing their lives for protesting against the illegal occupation...your quote about your country wanting...peace seems like a very bad joke.

 

If we changed the DEMOCRATCS(not democraphics)in that countr i am glad that we did it.It was greeks killing,turks dying and greeks getting away with it

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:10
Originally posted by iskenderani

And as we talk about the peacefull invasion tof Turks , against Cyprus , after the request of president Makarios , who clearly was not aware of the tremendous implications , that his request would bring to his country , nor the death and the devastation that he brought unwillingly to his own people.

What follows , as in this foroum there r not only Turks and Greeks , is just an example of what this peace invasion brought . So that the third party , the non Turks and non Greeks , must learn and know.

online features
From Cyprus to Munich April 20, 1998
by Mark Rose

image

Fifteenth-century fresco from the Tree of Jesse stolen from Antiphonitis, Cyprus, and recently recovered in Germany (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations)

Following the occupation of northern Cyprus by Turkish forces in 1974, looters stripped the region's churches, removing an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 icons; several dozen major frescoes and mosaics dating from the sixth to the fifteenth century; and thousands of chalices, wooden carvings, crucifixes, and Bibles. Efforts by the Autocephalous Church of Cyprus and the Republic of Cyprus have resulted in the return of some of these objects, but the majority remain lost. A major breakthrough came this past October when Munich police arrested 60-year-old Aydin Dikman after he was videotaped selling stolen goods. The arrest was made possible by the cooperation of Dikman's former client, Dutch art dealer Michel van Rijn. In apartments rented by Dikman, police found frescoes, mosaics, and icons estimated to be worth more than $40 million. The artworks were taken to the Bavarian National Museum for evaluation, while Dikman was taken to prison. Criminal proceedings have begun against him for possessing and disposing of stolen goods, and, if convicted, Dikman faces up to 15 years in jail.

image Many of the looted frescoes were badly damaged when cut up and removed from churches in northern Cyprus. (left) [LARGER IMAGE] Fragment of a sixth-century mosaic from Church of the Panaga Kanakari, Cyprus, seized in Munich. (right) [LARGER IMAGE] (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) image

Dikman's participation in the depredation of Cypriot heritage in the occupied part of the island was suspected as early as 1982. He kept a low profile, however, working through dealers and seldom meeting directly with those who purchased items from him. Whether out of fear of retribution or unwillingness to jeopardize potential future acquisitions, those who knew that he was selling looted artworks from northern Cyprus did not reveal his identity to authorities. It was not until 1989 that the extent of his role became somewhat clearer through testimony in the Goldberg case, a legal battle in federal court in Indianapolis over Byzantine mosaics from Cyprus. That nearly nine years passed from Dikman's exposure in the Goldberg case to his arrest in 1997 is a troubling commentary on the lack of a concerted international effort to end the destruction and trafficking in Cyprus' heritage.

Speaking after Dikman's arrest, Athanassios Papageorgiou, an expert in Byzantine art who works for the Cypriot church, told Reuters, "We have managed to catch the mastermind of the whole smuggling operation." A chronology of what is known of Dikman's activities over the past two decades suggests that his role was a central one.

  1982. In the Turkish Cypriot weekly magazine Olay for May 17, 1982, Mehmet Yasin reports that Dikman was detained by security officials in Kyrenia the preceding week and was on a list of antiquities smugglers sought by police.

  1983-1984. The Menil Foundation of Houston, with approval of Cypriot government and church authorities, purchases from Dikman thirteenth-century frescoes of Christ Pantokrator ("All Sovereign") and the Virgin with archangels stolen from the Church of the Blessed Themonianos near the village of Lysi in northern Cyprus. In 1983 Dominique de Menil, Walters Hopps of the Menil Foundation, and Yanni Petsopoulos, a London dealer acting as an intermediary, examined the frescoes at a Munich apartment rented by Dikman. Funds for the acquisition were put in escrow and released only after the foundation took possession of the frescoes in 1984. (According to the deposition of Constantine Leventis, Cyprus' ambassador to UNESCO, taken in 1989 for the Goldberg trial, Petsopoulos offered the frescoes to the foundation for $850,000; the final price has not been disclosed.) Cut into 28 pieces when they were removed from the church, they required extensive conservation work. In November 1997, the restored frescoes, which will eventually be returned to Cyprus, were put on display in a specially constructed and consecrated Byzantine chapel in Houston.

image Church of the Panaga Kanakari, Cyprus (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) [LARGER IMAGE]

  1984. While at Dikman's apartment during the 1983 trip to Munich, Hopps and Petsopoulos notice a mosaic rondel, which the latter subsequently identifies as from the Church of the Panaga Kanakari at Lythrankom. The Kanakari mosaics, dated to 525-530, are among the few from the sixth century to have survived a subsequent iconoclastic period. The church, in northern Cyprus, was stripped between August of 1976, following the forced departure of the priest, and November 1979, when an English tourist reported to Cypriot authorities that it had been looted. According to Hopps' 1989 deposition for the Goldberg trial, Petsopoulos told him that later in 1983 he had made an impassioned plea that Dikman return the mosaic to Cyprus. Reportedly, Dikman let Petsopoulos have four rondels, some small pieces of mosaic, and a sack of loose tesserae, which he swore was all that he had from the church. The mosaics were returned to Cyprus on November 30, 1984. Two rondels proved to be modern, but the other mosaics--rondels depicting St. Bartholomew and St. Luke, and several fragments of the surrounding decorative frieze--were from Kanakari. The mosaics, badly damaged, were placed in the Byzantine Museum of the Archbishop Makarios III Foundation in Nicosia after two years of conservation work. For transportation costs involved in the return, Petsopoulos was reimbursed $2,113.89 by the Menil Foundation.

Four sixth-century mosaics from Kankari were recovered after a 1989 court case in Indianapolis. From left: the archangel Michael, Christ as a child, St. Matthew, and St. James (Click on images for larger versions.) (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations)

  1988. Indianapolis art dealer Peg Goldberg buys four Kanakari mosaics--the archangel Michael, the upper half of Christ as a child, and the apostles Matthew and James--from Dikman, Van Rijn, and American dealer Robert Fitzgerald for about $1 million. The following year, the Autocephalous Church of Cyprus and the Republic of Cyprus, alerted by J. Paul Getty Museum curator Marion True after Goldman attempted to resell the mosaics for $20 million, sued for the return of the mosaics in federal court in Indianapolis and won. The mosaics were returned to Cyprus in 1991 and were greeted by a crowd of nearly 50,000. They are now in the Byzantine Museum of the Archbishop Makarios III Foundation. Because they were badly damaged during their removal from the church, while being shipped, and in restoration work commissioned by Goldberg, it is unlikely the mosaics will ever be reinstalled in the church regardless of any changes in Cyprus' political situation.

  February 1997. Michel van Rijn approaches Tasoula L. Georgiou-Hadjitofi, honorary consul of Cyprus in The Hague and representative of the Autocephalous Church of Cyprus for stolen art, offering to help buy back three mosaics and 44 frescoes and asking for protection for himself and his family as well as a license to operate a casino in Cyprus (his decision to assist the Cypriots effectively ended his career as an art dealer). Georgiou-Hadjitofi receives approval from the church and the attorney general of the Republic of Cyprus to proceed and raises the equivalent of about $500,000 from the Cypriot church to fund the operation.

  September 5, 1997. Van Rijn brings the St. Thaddeus mosaic from Kanakari to the Cypriot Consulate in Hague and is paid a first installment.

image St. Thaddeus mosaic (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) [LARGER IMAGE]

  September 6, 1997. Van Rijn goes to Munich and buys 25 frescoes from Dikman via intermediaries using $75,000 of his own money. Returning to The Hague in a chartered business jet, he meets with Georgiou-Hadjitofi and Papageorgiou at a bank, where Papageorgiou identifies the frescoes as from the Church of Christ Antiphonitis near village of Kalogrea in northern Cyprus. Built in the twelfth century as a monastic church, it was decorated in the fifteenth century with frescoes of the Tree of Jesse (a pictorial genealogy of the descendants of Jesse) and the Last Judgment. In 1976, an English reporter informed the church that the frescoes had been removed, and this was confirmed by an Anglican priest who visited Antiphonitis in 1979. That same year a diplomat brought to Cypriot authorities pieces of cloth from the church to which fresco fragments adhered, evidence of the failed removal of some of the paintings. (In a separate case, the Cypriot church has begun a legal battle in the Netherlands to recover four sixteenth-century icons from Antiphonitis.) Van Rijn receives $168,000, of which $98,000 are expenses.

image

image image Above, fifteenth-century frescoes from Antiphonitis being inventoried after their recovery in 1997. They depict the Last Judgment, left, and Tree of Jesse, right. (Click on images for larger versions.) (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) image image

  September 7, 1997. Van Rijn drives back to Munich and arranges to purchase seven larger frescoes for $49,000.

  October 1997. Having recovered 32 frescoes and one mosaic, valued at $25 million, Georgiou-Hadjitofi decides to move on Dikman. Van Rijn and his intermediaries are granted immunity in the Netherlands, Cyprus, and Germany, and a sting is set up.

  October 9-19, 1997. Georgiou-Hadjitofi, Van Rijn, and two Interpol officers travel to Munich on October 9. Local authorities working with them include art investigators of the Bavarian Criminal Office in Munich. At about 6:00 p.m. the following day, during an exchange of money for Cypriot artworks between Dikman and Van Rijn's intermediaries, the police strike, raiding two apartments and recovering 14 cases and packages in which were icons, two Antiphonitis frescoes, and the mosaic of St. Thomas from Kanakari. A warrant is issued for Dikman's arrest, and he is taken into custody. During a second sweep, police find 20 more boxes and cases with icons, additional Antiphonitis frescoes, early Bibles, ancient pottery, statues, and coins in the basement of Dikman's residence, as well as $16,000 and 200,000 guilders ($100,000) in his apartment.

Among the documents, police find photographs of four fresco fragments from the Ayios Solomonis church. The actual fragments are not recovered, and are presumed to have been already sold. Near the village of Komi Tou Yalou in northern Cyprus, the church was built in the seventh or eighth century. Its ninth-century fresco of the Resurrection of Christ was preserved until 1984, when a foreign visitor informed the Department of Antiquities that paintings had been taken. The department later confirmed that the figure of an angel had been removed from the fresco.

Icons seized in Munich (Click on images for larger versions.)
(Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations)

  October 29, 1997. Cyprus begins extradition proceedings against Dikman.

  November 8, 1997. "The Lost Treasures of Cyprus" exhibition opens at Haags Gemeentmuseum with 32 frescoes from Antiphonitis and the Kanakari mosaic of St. Thaddeus.

  November 26, 1997. Police learn from Dikman's documents of a third apartment rented by him under a false name. In the cellar they find an additional 30 to 40 crates with 130 icons, 25 frescoes, two mosaics, other artifacts, and an unauthenticated Picasso.

image His Beatitude Chrysostomos I, center, Minister of Education Hadjinicolaou, and Michel and Frederique van Rijn view newly returned frescoes and mosaics at the Archiespiscopal Palace in December 1997. [LARGER IMAGE]

  December 22, 1997. The 32 Antiphonitis frescoes and the Kanakari mosaic recovered by Georgiou-Hadjitofi and temporarily exhibited in The Hague return to Cyprus.

  February 11, 1998. Police seize nine Byzantine icons from the Munich home of Greek dealer Seraphim Dritsoula. The icons, apparently from more than one church, had been purchased from Dikman.

ARCHAEOLOGY will follow the ongoing efforts of the Republic of Cyprus and the Autocephalous Church of Cyprus to recover antiquities and church treasures. It is clear from statements by Cypriot officials that the story is far from finished. According to Papageorgiou, Dikman collected "upon orders from people from Holland, the United States, Greece, and other countries with more knowledge than him." In the catalog accompanying The Hague exhibition, Georgiou-Hadjitofi wrote, "There are more dealers than [Van Rijn] who have touched our heritage. Some have provided limited information, some have kept quiet. What is clear is that we now have records and information about the initial deals that went on. For the record, the Dutch art dealer volunteered to co-operate for his own motives. Whatever they are, however, we still believe he has more information to offer. We will finish this jigsaw [puzzle] and there will be no more hiding behind a veil of indifference and half truths."

image Negotiations are underway to recover the royal doors from the Peristerona church, now at the Kanazawa College of Art, Kanazawa, Japan. (Courtesy Permanent Mission of Cyprus to the United Nations) [LARGER IMAGE]

Today, Michel Van Rijn, who has received death threats as a result of his cooperation with authorities, is now under the protection of Scotland Yard.

Mark Rose is the Managing Editor of ARCHAEOLOGY.

This report was compiled from a variety of sources including A. Papageorgiou and T. Georgiou-Hadjitofi, eds., The Stolen Treasures of Cyprus (catalog of the October 25-December 22, 1977, exhibition in The Hague); P. Watson, "Crooked art dealer...," The Observer, October 19, 1997, p. 14; M. Yasin, "Perishing Cyprus," published in four installments of the Turkish Cypriot weekly magazine Olay beginning on April 26, 1982; press releases from the Cyprus News Agency; accounts in The Cyprus Weekly and Cyprus Mail; and documents from the 1989 case in U.S. District Court in Indianapolis, Autocephalous Greek-Orthodox Church of Cyprus and the Republic of Cyprus v. Goldberg & Feldman Fine Arts, Inc., and Peg Goldberg.

-----
1998 by the Archaeological Institute of America
www.archaeology.org/online/features/cyprus/

Isk.

Americans.Mark.That sounds cypriot ha?When you have nothing to say don't anger me by making stupid,unhumourus,low jokes like peaceful invasions.Use facts not arceologists that try to solve political issues

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:12

now let's say you are right.Should Turkey the homeland watch innocent turks get killed by hungry,vicous monsters?????That's peace to your logic.

 

(laugh to that)

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:14

### We have thausands of ripped,raped bodies,burned houses and you dare to say that tamer akam is saying the truth,you are no longer discussing history,you are writing an urban legend ###

Yes AKuncu....and they have 1.5 million men , women and children , ethnicaly cleansed...

Some day u will have to face ur own urban legents. Ur massacres r aknowledged by many countries , and as u may know , they r not ALL of them victims of propaganda. They have their own historians that have proved what crimes against humanity u have done.

But , yes , u r entitled to mumble ur own propaganda .... the trouble is that no one believes u anymore.

Isk.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:20

Akunsu wrote..

### Whe have been saying that our army was only there to stop the bloody arnage of the greeks.Finding humour in real life.That's funny.Let me ask;who refused the annan plan???? ###

Not only to stop the boody carnage of the Greeks ehhh?? But to loot , to steal and a lot of other peaceful activities used by u.

And as i have already said....The Greek Cypriots refused the A(u)nnan plan. What would u expect ?? To put willingly their head into the guilotine ?? Still joking ??

Isk.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:25

Akunsu wrote:

### Americans.Mark.That sounds cypriot ha?When you have nothing to say don't anger me by making stupid,unhumourus,low jokes like peaceful invasions.Use facts not arceologists that try to solve political issues..###

Ur objections please to the :  Archaeological Institute of America not me.

Of course , u have nothing else to do but to deny even these facts...Pathetic..

Isk.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 15:36

Akunsu wrote :

###

now let's say you are right.Should Turkey the homeland watch innocent turks get killed by hungry,vicous monsters?????That's peace to your logic.(laugh to that) ###

Of course a laugh at this. As i said , u guys r great jesters...Strangely , for the last 30 years the only killed ones r not Cypriot Turks , killed by Greek Cypriots , but Greek Cypriots killed by the peaceful Turkish Army...

Strange ehhhh ???

Isk.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 16:15

I tried to keep my promise to myself but its so damn hard to do. I am back temporarily just to say this: Ladies and gentleman the delusional Iskanderani would blame the crack on the sidewalk for making him trip and fall.

Maybe he would like to suggest a few peacefull overtures instead of blaming the world for such injustice.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 16:36

### "We are the nation upon whom actual injustice was inflicted. We are a persecuted nation, but no one recognizes that. We are treated as the "'stepchildren' of history." ###

Seko wrote :

###

I tried to keep my promise to myself but its so damn hard to do.

I sympathise Seko...I believe u when u say that u r dregged unwillingly into this ...

I am back temporarily just to say this: Ladies and gentleman the delusional Iskanderani would blame the crack on the sidewalk for making him trip and fall.

Really ?? Did i blame anyone ?? UN nations r blaming somebody ... Guess who..The EU is blaming somebody...Guess who... ( i assure u that they dont mean the little green men from Mars ..) 

Maybe he would like to suggest a few peacefull overtures instead of blaming the world for such injustice.

I did ...didnt u notice ? Go back and read with clear glasses what i have wrote..It will do good to u.

Isk.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 02:45
Originally posted by aknc

1.500 sick murderers are missing and as Clark Gable said in the gone with the wind;

"Frankly my dear i don't give a damn!"

Awesome!!! Akuncu announces here he doesnt give a damn about the 1500 missing/murdered Cypriot POWs, no matter that into this number of POWs there are women and children as young as 9 and 11 years old who had nothing to do with anything of all these, and of course soldiers who defended their country from a foreign military force invasion, quite as possible as any of you would do. But Akuncu, manages to label  ALL of them as sick murderers to justify the killing/dissapearance of them by his own country military.

Another sign of how some Turks (i wanna believe its only a minority who thinks this way) value non-Turkish lifes. I let all of you who came here and read these posts, to judge how much some Turks have made their self-criticism about the atrocities they did in Cyprus and how they still feel about the casualties of Greek-Cypriot side. The quote of Akuncu speaks by itself. You can draw your own conclusions about it.

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2005 at 02:52
Originally posted by aknc

Originally posted by Aeolus

Originally posted by aknc

Oguzoglu your claim is right but do not make turkey the side that refuses unification.As you know Turkey accepted the annan plan but it was turned down by the greeks.We are the side that wants peace.

I have to say your sense of humour needs some adjustment. After capturing a  part of a sovereign country and keep it under military occupation, after keeping an island divided by military force, with thousands of people still away from their homes, denied access by an occupying military force to their homes and goods (goods that have been seized by military force and around 100.000 settlers, Turkey has brought in post 1974 to aid in changing the demographics of the sparsely populated by Turkish-Cypriots North...), while more than 1.500 people are missing since the 1974 invasion by the Turks, and even today people are loosing their lives for protesting against the illegal occupation...your quote about your country wanting...peace seems like a very bad joke.

 

1.500 sick murderers are missing and as Clark Gable said in the gone with the wind;

"Frankly my dear i don't give a damn!"

I you are going to quote,quote the whole thing

"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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