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How much of pakistan was part of Afghanistan? |
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Zomaan Shilogh Dyak 
Janissary 
Joined: 01-Mar-2009 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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 Topic: How much of pakistan was part of Afghanistan?Posted: 08-Oct-2009 at 07:26 |
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Agreed. It is the Iranic element that links us.
Classic Persian culture has always been the High Culture of Central Asia, until the Russians showed up anyway.
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Chaaghli Ay Chaagh Mo Korey, Yarkhun O Darband Aa Asum
Surkhum Sthor Ma Mulo, Pong Lakhee Alghaan Aa Asum, Gaah-e-Badakhshan Aa Asum |
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PakistaniShield
Earl 
Joined: 26-Dec-2008 Location: North America Online Status: Offline Posts: 251 |
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Posted: 04-Oct-2009 at 08:52 |
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She's clearly Uzbek as the website states.
Almost all Altaic peoples lead nomadic lifestyles and own yurts.
Well Uzbek culture is somewhat influenced by Iranic cultures like Pashtun and Persian so that's maybe where you'll find a 'connection'.
But most of their culture, genetics & linguistics matches those of other Altaic nations. Azerbaijanis and Antatolians don't really count since they are mostly Altaic by language not by race or culture.
Edited by PakistaniShaheen - 08-Oct-2009 at 12:03 |
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balochii
Colonel 
Joined: 23-May-2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 699 |
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Posted: 03-Oct-2009 at 15:17 |
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yes they came from Sulieman mountain range in western pakistan, thats there just north of Quetta
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Zomaan Shilogh Dyak
Janissary
Joined: 01-Mar-2009 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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Posted: 03-Oct-2009 at 13:06 |
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Her clothing seems to be Uzbek but she must be from some nomadic group, close to Uzbeks, living in Uzbekistan. Most probably Karakalpak. The Uzbeks are not at all nomadic, the Uzbeks and Uyghurs are the only two completely non-nomadic groups in Central Asia.
By the way, even the traditional wedding jewelry of our women is of the same type as hers, incuding the headdress.
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Chaaghli Ay Chaagh Mo Korey, Yarkhun O Darband Aa Asum
Surkhum Sthor Ma Mulo, Pong Lakhee Alghaan Aa Asum, Gaah-e-Badakhshan Aa Asum |
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PakistaniShield
Earl
Joined: 26-Dec-2008 Location: North America Online Status: Offline Posts: 251 |
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Posted: 03-Oct-2009 at 07:06 |
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Here's what appears to be a picture of an Uzbek woman in an Uzbek yurt:
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Zomaan Shilogh Dyak
Janissary
Joined: 01-Mar-2009 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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Posted: 03-Oct-2009 at 06:42 |
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Uzbeks my friend do not live in Yurts and are not at all nomadics.
Some examples would be our music, cuisine (the the most famous dish of Chitral is Kalli or laghman as it is known as farther north) and dress (the Shuka), in the past all of these things were even more strongly indicative of Central Asian influence but it is dminishing. Our upper classes no longer wear the the small Central Asian turbans and silken chappan robes, and few people speak Farsi.
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Chaaghli Ay Chaagh Mo Korey, Yarkhun O Darband Aa Asum
Surkhum Sthor Ma Mulo, Pong Lakhee Alghaan Aa Asum, Gaah-e-Badakhshan Aa Asum |
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PakistaniShield
Earl
Joined: 26-Dec-2008 Location: North America Online Status: Offline Posts: 251 |
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Posted: 02-Oct-2009 at 10:58 |
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yes they were under Sikh rule. You are also right about the Pashtun question. Eastern Afghans being caucasianoid have more in common with Pakistanis then they do with their countrymen in the northwestern parts of Afghanistan whom are racially Mongoloid.
And recent material i read on wikipedia (cant trust it to be true) claims that the eastern afghans migrated out of western Pakistan and settled into eastern Afghanistan
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pratishtha
Immortal Guard 
Joined: 02-Oct-2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1 |
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Posted: 02-Oct-2009 at 03:04 |
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it is also quite feasable to say that the highlands of Afghanistan once belonged to Pakistan. The main confusion arises because of the name "Afghanistan" which Pakistan is no longer known by. There are currently more Pashtuns in Pakistan than in Afghanistan also. < id="gwProxy" ="">< ="jsCall;" id="jsProxy" ="">
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PakistaniShield
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Joined: 26-Dec-2008 Location: North America Online Status: Offline Posts: 251 |
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Posted: 01-Oct-2009 at 09:19 |
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Can you provide any examples of this? For example do Chitralis use yurts like Turkmens, Uzbeks or other Altaic peoples or other exmaples?
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Zomaan Shilogh Dyak
Janissary
Joined: 01-Mar-2009 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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Posted: 26-Sep-2009 at 03:03 |
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Chitralis, culturally speaking, in fact have more in common with a Turkmen, Tajik or Hazara than with Nuristanis. This is because of socio-political reasons more then anything else. The people of Upper Chitral (The Khow) have always traded almost exclusively north of the Hindukush. Even linguistically, Khowar (although a Dardic language) has many elements from the Ghalcha languages (Wakhi, Shugnani, Sarikoli etc.) Farsi was the language of the state and the educated class until the 1950's.
This is why Chitralis are so different from the other Dardic peoples, who remained far more isolated. As a result of this the Nuristanis (and even the Kalash) have more in common with the people of Diamer and Kohistan than with their neighbours the Khow.
It was only during the 1800's that the Chitrali State started interacting/trading with the Pashtuns of Kunar, Dir and Swat. Culturally, Pashtuns and Chitralis have little in common.
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Chaaghli Ay Chaagh Mo Korey, Yarkhun O Darband Aa Asum
Surkhum Sthor Ma Mulo, Pong Lakhee Alghaan Aa Asum, Gaah-e-Badakhshan Aa Asum |
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PakistaniShield
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Joined: 26-Dec-2008 Location: North America Online Status: Offline Posts: 251 |
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Posted: 26-Sep-2009 at 02:00 |
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No it's not. A small percentage is found in the Kalash, because scientists propose that people of haplogroup L crossed over from Africa into inida and left small trails of it wherever they passed through its also found in Tajikistan and part of Uzbekistan & Afghanistan
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balochii
Colonel
Joined: 23-May-2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 699 |
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Posted: 25-Sep-2009 at 07:41 |
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^ L is actually found in Northern Pakistanis (dards) but also south indians aswell |
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PakistaniShield
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Joined: 26-Dec-2008 Location: North America Online Status: Offline Posts: 251 |
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Posted: 25-Sep-2009 at 06:54 |
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Oh and regarding the haplogroups you are correct Pakistan is almost entirely R1A geneticly with a pinch of Q, J1 and significant L markers carried by the mohajirs & perhaps the brahuis.
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PakistaniShield
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Joined: 26-Dec-2008 Location: North America Online Status: Offline Posts: 251 |
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Posted: 25-Sep-2009 at 06:50 |
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Well culturally speaking, I dont think such a thing as Iranic really exists. Even "indic" there's no such race. The language grouping is most commonly reffered to as Indo-Aryan. I think you mean geography yes Dardic people live in mountainious like the Iranic populations of Pakistan and less dravidian/indian influence in their languages.
my personal thoery was that the Indo-Aryan & Dardic population of Pakistan are descedents of a first wave of Indo-Iranic invaders who settled in Pakistan. This gave them lots of time to mix with the native population and close contact with the dravidians is evident in the Sindhi & Punjabi languages.
Pashtuns & Baloch are descedents of a second wave of invaders who came. Much to my surprise these same theories are shared by historians.
Dardic people in my theory descend from the first wave of Indo-Iranic, like Sindhis & Punjabis as also evident in their language (some linguists consider Dardic & Indo-Aryan to be of the same family) but due to their remote mountainous location they mixed less and came in much less contact with the dravidians and other races.
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balochii
Colonel
Joined: 23-May-2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 699 |
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Posted: 24-Sep-2009 at 21:05 |
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^ i was very surprised to know that acutally northern pakistans (dards) share very much in comman with rest of Pakistanis (punjabies,sindhis) genetically they are very similar, ofcourse culturaly they might be more iranic, but even pashtuns have more indic genetics they they have persian genetics, infact persian (iranians) have huge amounts of J1 Haplogroup which is arab and J1 is totally missing in Pashtuns, Pakistanis and North Indians. I know every one has different looks and physical features but genetically all of the north indian subcontinent is not very different from each other inluding pashtuns.
Edited by balochii - 24-Sep-2009 at 21:08 |
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PakistaniShield
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Joined: 26-Dec-2008 Location: North America Online Status: Offline Posts: 251 |
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Posted: 24-Sep-2009 at 20:53 |
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I believe the people of Chitral speak an Individual Indo-Iranic language which does not belong to any subgrouping inside the Indo-Iranic family.
The Kashmiri language onthe other hand belongs to the Dardic grouping.
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PakistaniShield
Earl
Joined: 26-Dec-2008 Location: North America Online Status: Offline Posts: 251 |
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Posted: 24-Sep-2009 at 20:49 |
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I think you mean eastern Afghans and in most specificly Nuristanis would be closest. Uzbek Afghans, Hazara Afghans, and Turkmen Afghans have nothing in common with you.
As for Pashtun Afghans they are also related to you as are Pakistani Pashtuns & Balochis who are from the lowlands by the way.
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balochii
Colonel
Joined: 23-May-2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 699 |
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Posted: 24-Sep-2009 at 17:01 |
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^ ^ what is the language of chitral? also are you closer to afghans or kashmiries?
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Zomaan Shilogh Dyak
Janissary
Joined: 01-Mar-2009 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2009 at 12:51 |
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As a Chitrali I bear no ill will towards Afghans. They are my brothers and in most ways we are closer to them than to the Pakistanis of the lowlands.
...But what I have stated about the Kafirs is true. They did not get along with the Afghan State at all, it was only after 1895 and their conversion that they bceame Afghan Nationalists. Kindly refer to the boook "Kafirs of The Hindukush."
Another thing, Chitralis have never considered themselves to be Afghans, despite having political associations with Afghanistan at various times in our history. Ultimately our ruler chose closer ties with Kashmir and eventually the British.
In 1919 (3rd Afghan War) The Chitralis were the only people along the Durand Line who sided with the British. We still have songs about "Alghaani o Khol an Kabul otain anzese" "We will send the Pashtuns bones back to Kabul" from that period.
The Kunar Valley (which down to Asmar belonged to Chitral before 1895) almost fell again in 1919, Shahzaman Khan's advance was stopped at Arandu and Chitral retook Barikot and advanced on Narai.
Once more I do not intend to enflame anyones passions by making these remarks, I am only telling you teh correct history of my region.
Afghans and Pakistanis are equally close to my heart.
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Chaaghli Ay Chaagh Mo Korey, Yarkhun O Darband Aa Asum
Surkhum Sthor Ma Mulo, Pong Lakhee Alghaan Aa Asum, Gaah-e-Badakhshan Aa Asum |
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red clay
Administrator 
Tomato Master Emeritus Joined: 14-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10226 |
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Posted: 31-Aug-2009 at 15:39 |
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First let me say that there is only one race, the Human Race. The concept of separate racial groups is a social construct.
I've had 2 complaints about this thread. Having looked through it, I can't find anything overly objectionable, yet. I say yet because I do see what others have. This thread is starting to heat up. I don't want to close this thread as has been the normal procedure.
We are all educated intelligent adults here, there is much to debate. In a civilized and productive manner.
For instance, Carleton Coon was a really interesting person. I had the honor of meeting him on several occasions when I was a young teen. However, his ideas on "race" were from a different era.
His last 2 books were not well received, in fact they were torn apart by his contemporaries. Labeling it outright racist in nature.
Point, counterpoint, and it can be heated, as long as it stays civil.
Edited by red clay - 31-Aug-2009 at 15:40 |
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