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Ancient Republics In Ancient India? What Are They?
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snowybeagle View Drop Down
Baron
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Posts: 474 		  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ancient Republics In Ancient India? What Are They?
    Posted: 26-Jun-2008 at 08:31
I came across some reference in wikipedia about ancient states in India listed as republics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_republics#Antiquity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_500_BCE.png

Does anyone know why some would list them as republics?
Is there any further information I can find on them?
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Posts: 646 		  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 09:06
Understand that India - Hindustan - was never a monolith area but a cultural identity.

Also, yes there were Republics where the Village elders would each rule, with a Raja to hold executive figure head power. Sort of like modern day British Empire where the Queen sits on a throne but the PM rules.

Another Republic, one more famous, was Kalinga, which Emperor Asoka of the Maghadan Empire had conquered.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 09:25
Kalinga was more akin to an elected (and I use that term in the most narrowest possible meaning) aristocrisy. But then before 1950, most democracys were.
 
 
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Posts: 211 		  Quote Odin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 14:05
There seems to be an interesting tendency in many early Indo-European societies towards aristocratic and plutocratic republics, and even in monarchical IE societies there seems to have been a traditional 3-way "separation of powers" between king, aristocracy, and freemen. Royal Absolutism seems to have been a import from the Middle East, at least in Europe.
"Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now."

-Arnold J. Toynbee
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Posts: 474 		  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2008 at 08:18
What formal terms did these "republics" use for themselves?
Did they call themselves Kingdoms as well?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2008 at 08:25
Originally posted by Odin

There seems to be an interesting tendency in many early Indo-European societies towards aristocratic and plutocratic republics, and even in monarchical IE societies there seems to have been a traditional 3-way "separation of powers" between king, aristocracy, and freemen. Royal Absolutism seems to have been a import from the Middle East, at least in Europe.
 
Not really. Sumerian city states were also democratic for several centuries.
 
More a case of civilisation, city states can run on democracy, large states can't. Even today in most democracy citizen participation is limited to voting. And many of the day to day decisions are made by unelected persons, town planners etc.
 
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Posts: 474 		  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2008 at 09:15
Originally posted by Sparten

More a case of civilisation, city states can run on democracy, large states can't. Even today in most democracy citizen participation is limited to voting. And many of the day to day decisions are made by unelected persons, town planners etc.
But it is in the nature of democracies for these unelected persons like town planners are answerable to elected officials.
 
In a large democracy, even back in the larger cities of ancient Greece, it is not practical for the citizenry to meet and vote on every single decision.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2008 at 10:18
You really think those elected officials have the time or the understanding of what is often highly technical and lengthy decisions and orders.
 
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Odin View Drop Down
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Posts: 211 		  Quote Odin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2008 at 13:51
Originally posted by Sparten

Originally posted by Odin

There seems to be an interesting tendency in many early Indo-European societies towards aristocratic and plutocratic republics, and even in monarchical IE societies there seems to have been a traditional 3-way "separation of powers" between king, aristocracy, and freemen. Royal Absolutism seems to have been a import from the Middle East, at least in Europe.
 
Not really. Sumerian city states were also democratic for several centuries.


Really? Shocked Interesting! I always though the early Sumerian city-states were theocratic, with the priests generally having control of things until strongman generals took control and made themselves kings.
"Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now."

-Arnold J. Toynbee
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snowybeagle View Drop Down
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Posts: 474 		  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2008 at 15:32
Originally posted by Sparten

You really think those elected officials have the time or the understanding of what is often highly technical and lengthy decisions and orders.
Maybe not, but that's not the main thrust of their jobs.
 
They are supposed to be able to enlist reliable advisors who can summarise the main points, present a neutral comparison of pros and cons, painting a fair picture, for the decision-makers to make decisions.  That's what jobs like scientific advisors or security advisors are for.
 
An elected official has to take responsibility for the decisions made, regardless of how much he understood, or even if he was misled.
 
Thus, his responsible is to assemble a good team, and put in place a process so that there is as little conflict of interests possible between those giving advice and those making the proposals.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jul-2008 at 12:32
Also, I recalled, in the Mauryan empire, the country was an absolute monarchy, but the local officials were all elected.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2008 at 09:05
Hi ,
I am new to this forums.

My gut feeling is that in ancient indian 16 janapadas, most of them are republics and ruled
the janapada by elected members formed councils like present days ministary and elected assembly( called sabha or samiti).
lichavi,visali,yuvadeyas,Malla  are some of the names of republics in ancient india.

ramesh
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 02:08
Licchavi was known to be a tribal confederation which emperor Ashoka defeated before Kalinga.
May be Licchavi was the first democrazy.
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