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How does Mongolians feel about Han Chinese? |
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Kids 
Shogun 
Joined: 19-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 238 |
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 Topic: How does Mongolians feel about Han Chinese?Posted: 26-Jul-2008 at 20:27 |
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Hey, guys, I am thinking about making a documentary about minorities (after saw the Tibetan protest over Chinese "control of their land") in China and I want to know how Mongolians feel about Chinese or being part of Chinese (in Inner China)? I have met some young Mongolians and they seem to be very hostile about Han Chinese. But, I also met one Mongolian from China who claim that he is proud to be Mongolian Chinese. I know there are more Mongolians live in Inner Mongolia than Outer Mongolia and I like to know if there is any ethnic tension between Mongolians and Han people? Do Mongolians feel their culture is disappering in response to Han Chinese migration and their rapid modernization? Thanks
Edited by Kids - 26-Jul-2008 at 20:29 |
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Sarmat
Caliph 
Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3113 |
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Posted: 26-Jul-2008 at 20:36 |
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It's a hard question. Which perhaps would be the best for Mongolians themselves to answer.
My impression however is that Mongolians in the inner Mongolia are undergoing the last stage of the process of assimilation into Chinese.
A lot of them actually are more fluent in Chinese than in their own native language. Yes, there are more Mongolians in the Inner Mongolia (about 4 mlns) than in the Outer Mongolia. (3 mlns) However, we should also consder the fact that Han Chinese are absolute majority in the Chinese province of Inner Mongolia (around 20 mlns).
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Conservative
Samurai 
Joined: 02-Aug-2007 Location: Iran Inshalla Online Status: Offline Posts: 110 |
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Posted: 26-Jul-2008 at 23:17 |
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Interesting. Considering how small the Mongol population is compared to the Chinese population, is there any reason why Inner Mongolia still exists as "Inner Mongolia" and that too an 'autonomous region' in China? I mean, the Chinese government cant be all THAT bad if they still recognize the territory as having a Mongol identity. Afterall the Uyghur people dont seem to be to fortunate in that their province has a Chinese name - but then again, i guess whats in a name when the substance is missing? Edited by Conservative - 26-Jul-2008 at 23:17 |
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ایران زمین
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Sarmat
Caliph
Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3113 |
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Posted: 27-Jul-2008 at 00:57 |
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Well, actually Chinese are majority in all autonomous regions of the PRC except Tibet. Besides having their own autonomies ethnic minorities in China also have some important priviliges, for example, they don't have to follow "one child policy." I think the reason for such things is simple i.e. to communicate the message that PRC is friendly and supportive towards ethnic minorities and "diversity." In any case, such policy doesn't hurt the "integrity" of Chinese state because Han-Chinese are still the majority everywhere except Tibet, it also undermines ethnic conflicts and helps the outside image of the country.
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ychennay
Immortal Guard 
Joined: 21-Jun-2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 07:46 |
I think China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Province is still demographically a Uyghur-majority region, although there has been a steady influx of Han immigration since 1949. Language is the key denominator, in my opinion. Most Chinese who live in the autonomous regions do not speak the local language, and thus cannot fully interact with the ethnic minorities that live there on their own terms. This fact invariably serves to exacerbate some of these regions' ethnic/cultural/social tensions. |
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calvo
General 
Joined: 20-May-2007 Location: Spain Online Status: Offline Posts: 846 |
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Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 22:36 |
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In some regions in Inner Mongolia, I could imagine that the Mongols and Han Chinese have already gotten used to living together as they have been cohabitting the territory for centuries.
One question that I'd like to ask out of curiosity is whether Mongolians in general feel closer to Russians or to Chinese?
I wouldn't be surprised if Kalmyks and Buryats would feel closer to Russians while those living in Inner Mongolia might feel closer t the Chinese, but what about the bulk population of outer Mongolia?
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Sarmat
Caliph
Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3113 |
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Posted: 31-Jul-2008 at 05:59 |
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Generally speaking Mongols are quite friendly towards Russians. A lot of people in still Mongolia speak Russian as well.
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Kids
Shogun
Joined: 19-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 238 |
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Posted: 31-Jul-2008 at 07:11 |
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"Generally speaking Mongols are quite friendly towards Russians. A lot of people in still Mongolia speak Russian as well."
How do you know about that? I thought Soviet oppressed Mongolian cultures and their cultural icon.
Also how do Outer Mongolians feel about Chinese? I know there are more and more Mongolian migrat and work in China now..
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Sarmat
Caliph
Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3113 |
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Posted: 31-Jul-2008 at 08:47 |
It might sound weird, but it were Soviets who actually created independent Mongolian state.
Russian language, TV, music etc. are popular and known in Mongolia although not to that extent as it was during the USSR times.
How do I know that?
I'm Russian and I have many Mongolian friends. Of course some Mongols are nationalists, but there is nothing particularly negative in this regard towards Russians.
I also didn't understand the point about the "oppression of Mongolian cultural icon" by the Soviets?
Mongolians were oppressed indeed especially the lamaist clergy took the biggest hit, but they have their own "mini Stalin," Khorloogiin Choibalsan. So the actual repressions were conducted by Mongolian communists, not by Soviets or Russians.
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Sarmat
Caliph
Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3113 |
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Posted: 31-Jul-2008 at 08:49 |
It also depends. But in the Outer Mongolian minds China is more connected with "oppression."
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Guests
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Posted: 31-Jul-2008 at 12:31 |
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I'm from China. To tell you the truth, we never consider Mongolians live in Inner Mongolia as "aliens". We know that Mongolia is a big minority in China. As far as I know in every dynasty in China ,especially in Qing dynasty,there are a large number of Mongolians conducted as high officials in capital. Outer Mongolia ,supported by USSR, gained its independence right after WW2 but at that time Chinese government didn't recognize it. After the establishment of PRC, you guys should know,China had a very very very close relationship with Soviet Union, so PRC relunctantly recognized it (maybe to please Soviet Union?). As for inner Mongolia,a majority of them at that time preferred to be Chinese, so they didn't follow the way the Outer Mongolia did.
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Guests
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Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 00:55 |
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I'm not aware of any documentation to support the claim that the majority of Mongols in Southern Mongolia preferred Chinese overlordship to integration with Norther Mongolia. My reading of various sources show it was mainly collusion between Mao and Stalin that stopped the formation of a greater Mongolia. Sadly, very few, if any of the rights supposedly granted to the peoples of autonomous regions were respected by the Chinese government, and consequently, as other writers have pointed out, this has led to the precipitous decline of the cultural identity of the Mongols. On a related note, it's true that many Mongols were high officials of dynastic regimes but why should that be a surprise and what relevance does that have to the current occupation of Southern Mongolia? Most dynasties were foreign to begin with, northern barbarians mainly, as the Han refer to them. No disrespect intended but historical reality cannot be papered over by slogans and disinformation.
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Sarmat
Caliph
Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3113 |
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Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 02:02 |
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It's hard to say whether it was really a collusion. In case of Mongolian expansion more to the South to the inner Mongolia it would be undoubtly labeled as the "Soviet aggression." In fact, no country was willing to recognize the independence of Mongolia in mostly viewed the situation in Chinese eyes which represented China as a victim of the "Soviet imperialism." So, the fact that Mao recognized the independence of Mongolia was in fact a fundamental concession by the Chinese, since despite all his "communism" Mao remained Chinese nationalist. This open the door for the real international recognition of the independent Mongolian state. Let's not forget that the government of the republic of China, based in Taibei after 1949 has never recognized the Mongolian independence and that government represented the whole China in the UN security council well until 1971. |
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Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 04:02 |
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We should probably leave it to the historians to research the circumstances under which the partitioning of Mongolia was imposed on the Mongols but the central issue I was raising was whether the previous writer had documentation attesting to his claim that the majority of Southern Mongols preferred to accept an integration with a Chinese government. I'd like to see such documentation if it exists. I'm personally not aware of any such historical record, especially in view of the need to occupy Southern Mongolia with the PLA in order to maintain control over the Mongols. The simple facts are that the PLA still remains there and Southern Mongolia has been under a state of occupation by an imperialist force for more than 60 years with all kinds of miserable effects on the Mongols. See the Southern Mongolia Human Rights Information Center to understand the issues from the Mongol point of view at www.smhric.org.
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Sarmat
Caliph
Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3113 |
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Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 06:10 |
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In this regard I wonder if there is any tendency of the migration of Inner Mongolians to Mongolia?
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Kids
Shogun
Joined: 19-Nov-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 238 |
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Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 08:13 |
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"It also depends. But in the Outer Mongolian minds China is more connected with "oppression."
Can you elaborate on that? Do you think Mongolians are more hostile toward Chinese than Russians? and why is that?
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Sarmat
Caliph
Joined: 31-May-2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 3113 |
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Posted: 01-Aug-2008 at 09:02 |
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Strange question. It's simply because Russians created independent Mongolian state by taking its territory from China, while some territories with Mongol population are still kept under Chinese rule. I think it's natural. And also as I said Russian didn't intervene directly in the interior life of Mongolia.
It's however just my general impression from communicating with Mongols and visit to Mongolia, I can't give you guarantee that all Outer Mongolians are "hostile" to Chinese. Mongols might be kind of suspicuous about Chinese, but at the same time it's not uncommon to meet a person in Mongolia who would call a Russian "brother."
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Posted: 02-Aug-2008 at 03:42 |
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I'm not sure that Russia 'took' territory from China. It's more like Russia and China took territory from the Mongols. The Russians took Tuva and Buryatia, the Chinese took Southern Mongolia. Neither great imperial power did the Mongols a particularly big favor, their only concern was their own personal interests. All imperialist government behave in more or less the same way, power politics is what typically determines the outcome of questions of territory. We saw it then, and we see it today.
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Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai
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Joined: 29-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 108 |
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Posted: 02-Aug-2008 at 06:14 |
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I beleive most ethnic groups hope to create their own nation countries if they can. Mongolians have a stonger feelings on this point, that may be one of the reasons why there's only Mongolians who regain independ after Qing-Manchu empire. If you feel happy when you become the monrity in your own land?
 there're so many things make you unhappy, but you still have to live as normal. Personally, I think I should be friendly towords to any neighbors if they are not so bad.Edited by Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai - 02-Aug-2008 at 06:16 |
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Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai
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Posted: 02-Aug-2008 at 06:21 |
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On the another hand, I think Inner Mongolians(i mean, all people of Inner Mongolia) will be mixed ethnic group different to both Mongolians and Chinese in the future, how about their feelings towords this 2 ethnic groups? unknown now. |
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