I second sarmat12 on this opinion, and I should add that majority of Inner/South Mongolians probably also support SanjAltan's view point. There will always be sell outs for personal financial gain. Clive, my friend, keep up the good work of creating employment for South Mongolians and lets agree to disagree on our points of view.
Yelu Chucai was a Khitan, another Mongolic tribe. Not a very good example. Khitans were treated as equals by Mongols.
Secondly Genghis khan minisiries isn't really a very authentic source for his history. It's rather a distorted movie not complitely historically correct and created in order to appeal to the Chinese public. That's why it's so unpopular in the Outer Mongolia.
Thridly, whatever you say, but Outer Mongols in general are not really fond of China. It's another question whether it's good or bad. But the fact is that SanjAltan is expressing real Mongol sentiments more accurate than you.
If this is the main point of the discussion, I brought up my point as clear as a bell.
The Hans can only be dealt with by being better than them.
Revolution will not solve the problem. Look what happened to
Gada Meiren and De Wang .
The people of Inner Mongolia do not need your tears and sympathy , they are already
exceeding their goals, and even helping their Khalkha brothers in the R.M.
They have evolved themselves to a point wherein they now have some strong leverage
vs. the regime in Beijing. Wind Power , natural gas, and dairy products are being exported by companies ran by Inner Mongolians ( genuine mongolians, not Hans) who have
laughed and ridiculed the Han regime in Beijing many times over . They do not love Beijing, but they are much smarter than people like yourself, because they found the correct path to success.
Take my wife's family, they are now one of the biggest herders of cattle and sheep.
The Hans like Lamb hotpot and have a growing appetite for steak, my father in law
brought some Herefords from Austrailia and Argentina, and now they are growing in big numbers in Urad grasslands around Tongliao in Khorchin.
Many mongolian families now have internet , satellite TV , wide screen TVs etc..
They clearly know how to deal with Beijing, and this should be a lesson to ALL minorities
in China. My wife's nephews all go to the best schools like Beida, or Qinghua, and go
abroad to Germany , Austrailia and the U.S. (one just arrived for Fall QUarter at Univ.Wisconsin, Madison, for her PHD in Theoretical Physics).
Many of the top mongol students from Inner Mongolia outperform their Han counterparts
in the IVY league schools in Beijing, Jilin, Harbin etc..
Do not worry about Inner Mongolia, they know what they are doing, and are doing it right.
I think the 'explosion' and the anger and hate you repeatedly allude to seems to be concentrated in your vicinity, as seen in your petulant outburst. I did not mean to offend, I really did mean that you should find a forum where all the music that you're so wild about can be discussed freely and extensively without distracting serious discussants from the main ideas here.
as a moderator, I give you the warning with regard to your violation of the Code of Conduct of AE. Ad hominem attacks are prohibited in this forum.
SanjAltan although critical of your posts didn't call you any "names." You should respect other co-forumers and answer to their cirticism with dignity and respect.
This is my first warning to you. Aftwerwards, if you get the second one, you can be banned according to CoC of AE.
Chinggis up there will definitely not approve of your behavior.
Your anger and hatred will just do the following;
1. Give the Hans more ammunition in their bullying.
2. Show to the world you are the biggest CRYBABY, who only whines but has no path
towards solution.
3. Show to the world that you are the biggest congenital idiot and a shame to the mongol people.
the people of inner mongolia are much smarter than what you think, they have transformed
their region into a high GDP region and are turning the tables on the Hans.
Idiots and morons like you are not welcomed in Inner Mongolia, just rot to death in the
forsaken slum you are in the US.
Clive
This kind of language and attitude is absolutely uncalled for. I understand that your wife is Mongol, but this does not give you the license to speak on behalf of all people of South Mongolia. While no one person has the monopoly on point of view, we should present facts in public forums like this and let the facts and evidence speak for themselves and not pass excessive subjective judgment by ourselves, specially if we are newcomers and outsiders to a region. Please present your opinions and points of view with a little more respect towards others who disagree with your opinions and points of view. Lets keep some civility and dignity here and lets refrain from ad hominem personal attacks.
You know with that last comment, it's pretty clear, at least to me, that you're not really interested in adding much value to this discussion.
Maybe you can find a another forum where your broad knowledge of Mongol music can be better appreciated. Discussions concerning Tengger, Saraa, etc and Chinese bullyism are separate topics, and you're not getting it.
You exaggerate don't you think when you characterize my comments as an explosion? If you bothered to read them, you'd see that most of them are questions and challenges to your poor understanding of the issues being discussed here? Challenges to you to get more informed and get beyond your obsession with Mongol music being played on Chinese government approved websites, not to mention the disinformation you've brought to this discussion.
I don't accept your recommendation that I be like Chinggis, no Mongol would even think of being compared with Chinggis, for there is no comparison, on any level. That is why you will never find a Mongol child named after him, can't be done. You were right when you said that you needed to learn much about the Mongols.
I do agree with your comment that more jobs and the economy is a problem in RM, but I don't agree that we do that ignoring the violation of human rights going on in Southern Mongolia being perpetrated by the government that you seek so mightily to whitewash. Improving the Mongol economy is certainly a worthy goal, so let me say thanks, if that's what you're doing.
Finally, how about an even trade. I'll go to one of the websites you've mentioned if you go to www.smhric.org and read a couple of the articles, at least maybe as long as one or two Hurd songs. If you can do that, I'll believe your claim that you wish to learn much about the Mongols. Sofar, you've learned very little other than how to put into practice some of your capitalist desires. Let me hasten to make clear again, that that is not a bad thing, lest you misinterpret my words again, but do you really think that that has given you adequate background to intelligently engage in these discussions? Think carefully before you respond.
I'm not clear on what you are driving at when you say 'making money is the way to beat the Hans at their own game'. Who wants to beat the Han at their own game? Is this meant to be understood as a general principle that you believe in of how to achieve happiness and success? Your advice is somewhere between sloganeering and condescending. Making money and the pursuit of the dollar, or the Rmb, doesn't in and of itself address the main issues being raised in previous comments regarding human rights and cultural preservation. You provide evidence of a handful of successful Mongol entrepreneurs. How does the economic success of a very few individuals in any way ameliorate the denial of basic human rights to the vast numbers of Mongol nomads who have been forced off their ancestral lands? How does their success in any way address the suffering endured by Mr. Hada, 12+ years in a filthy inhumane Chinese prison merely for trying to preserve Mongol culture? How will the drive for profit improve the environmental devastation going on in the Mongol grasslands? Maybe you're looking through rose colored glasses, completely focused on economic considerations, and have no clue about the importance of basic human values. Check www.smhric.org for a more objective view.
And I'm completely baffled by the reference to a cultural fusion between RM and China mediated by the Mongols of China. What is it? You mean Mongols on both sides of the border listen to some common music, so that's cultural fusion? As recently as October 2006, the Mongol band Khurd was denied a venue at IM University, completely arbitrarily. Another example of the authorities' fear of Mongols wanting to appreciate their own culture. Mongols in China are routinely denied the right to print and distribute their own literature and music unless there's some politically connected person who's pulling strings. Everything has to be 'approved' by some official who has to make sure that no latent Mongol nationalism is being espoused, it could lead to splittism. Cultural fusion sounds like something you would say if your were promoting an agenda for the sinicization of the Mongols. Cultural fusion is not a term something most Mongols I know would welcome or accept regarding whatever interactions exist between the two.
It's interesting, that Ba Sen, the actor who played Genhis in the miniseries, just has played the epic Chinese hero, Guan Yu in the new blockbuster, "Red Cliff."
BTW is that true that Ba Sen is a descendant of Genghiz Khan?
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum