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Anyone Know What These Are?
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opuslola View Drop Down
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Anyone Know What These Are?
    Posted: 06-Jan-2011 at 14:59
Re;, my post from Oct.8, 2010;

My dear Allan!

"What wonderful news! So go ahead and do it!!!

I will still stick to my original guess, which was, as I remember, Etruscan!

Again, please keep us all posted!"

Awaiting, we are! Sixth century BCE?

From Wikipedia;

"In Attic Greek the Etruscans were known as Τυρρήνιοι (Tyrrhēnioi), earlier Tyrsenoi, from which the Romans derived the names Tyrrhēni (Etruscans), Tyrrhēnia (Etruria), and Mare Tyrrhēnum (Tyrrhenian Sea).[2] The Etruscans called themselves Rasenna, which was syncopated to Rasna or Raśna.[3]

As distinguished by its unique language, this civilization endured from the time of the earliest Etruscan inscriptions (ca. 700 BC)[4] until its assimilation into the Roman Republic in the 1st century BC.[4]"

Etruscan still looks good, does it not?

Edited by opuslola - 06-Jan-2011 at 15:05
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 11:51
Oh, google search that then click 'images' and you'll see what I mean, sorry.
-Allan
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 11:50
Maybe you're right. I think I've identified the flat topped headwear though, ...though I may be miles off. Google search; 'greek polos head'. A 'polos' has apparently never been found (only seen in statuery) so no one knows much about them, what they were made from, etc.
Thanks!
-Allan
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2010 at 18:38
I will still stick to my Etruscan origins!

Good Luck!
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2010 at 16:21

Hello again. Just sent them today via courier to an auction house in London. I'm pretty certain now that they are archaic Greek Kore, used on alters in temples, I've seen similar sized ones online holding birds (partridges apparently) and with similar hairstyles and draped clothing and half-smiles (typical archaic Greece...apparently) but we'll see what they have to say. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks!
-Allan
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2010 at 18:08
Originally posted by ColonelAllan

I have two of them, the same height and stance but only one base. I have better quality pictures if anyone would like to see them. I have been told they are archaic Greek dating from around the 6th century BC but that's all. I don't know who they are or anything else about them. I was just wondering if anyone could shed any light??
Thanks,


If you are in London maybe you can take them to the British Museum to see if they are fakes or real. What museums do you have in your area? My former instructor at Eastern Washington University could tell. She worked as an archaeologist on the Island of Cyprus for 20 years, Bronze Age dig. If you are in York you can take it to a little antiquity shop called Ancient World. I was really surprised at the artifacts they have there for sale. To me these artifacts looked like they belonged in a museum but apparently they were not museum class. I did an internship at the Museum of Cycladic Art in Athens, Greece and later I worked at Old Mission State park in N.Idaho. I was exposed to a lot of artifacts but I am far from an expert.
I have been to the U.K twice and I would love to come back for another visit.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2010 at 18:03
I never set out to 'hawk' them, so to speak. I was just wondering about their origin. But when talking about possible value I may be given an offer I can't refuse...and anyone willing to pay highly for them will probably appreciate them a lot more than me. Maybe even have something similar in a collection.
-Allan
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2010 at 17:58
I'll actually miss them being around if they are interested and I end up selling. If not then no harm done. I don't mind the day out plus I'll get to see the British Museum Smile
-Allan
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2010 at 17:49
Originally posted by red clay

If I had anything like these objects, I would take them to Christy's in NYC.  Doesn't Christy's have an Auction house in the UK?  They Used to have one in London, Soethby's also. 
Christys may give an incomplete answer.  If the items are both genuine and Christys level, they will let you know.  But.... if the items are either fake or genuine, but not at the Christys level, they simply return them with an explanation that they are not interested in them.  In short, they only  authenticate them if they are interested in them. 
Originally posted by red clay

 
The closest I ever came to finding anything like this was approx. 20 years ago.  I stumbled onto a Ching Dyn. Bronze Eagle in a yard sale.  I paid 20 bucks for it.  It went for 6,500 at Freeman's in Phila. [Regional auction house].  There is a popular saying, Chance favors the pepared mind.  How many people picked up that eagle before I did?  I was the only one who spotted the dynasty stamp and could tell which dyn. it represented.  Paying attention in History classes has a way of paying off all it's own sometimes.
Like being forced to memorize the signers of the Declaration of Independence in the 8th grade, and then years later spot a signers name on an old doc. in a church thrift shop, for 5 bucks. 
 
Keep looking. Big smile
 
 
Congratulations on the great finds from two widely seperated eras.  That is inspiration to keep me going. I really like the Ching dynasty find.  I still blitz thrift stores and garage sales from time to time. 
 
 So far my finds have been pretty modest:
-Nice wood carving of Guan Yin, probably early 1900s. Paid $80.00 to an affable muslim dealer for it (who had no idea who Guan Yin is).
-Nicely carved Taoist wooden incense holder.  Worth way more than the $12.00 I paid.
-Tibetan Buddhist painting with gold thread on sillk. Its modern era, but not a "tourist market" item and very skillfully done. Paid $150.00 to an "Old China hand" for it.  I think it is worth between $1,000 and $1,500 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Cryptic - 10-Oct-2010 at 18:17
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2010 at 11:39
I get the image of Francis Krik's discovery of the struture of the DNA double helix whilst he was high on LSD. His mind being prepared by unnatural means Lamp
-Allan
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2010 at 11:33

I just need confirmation of authenticity. I'm talking to someone at the minute who says they look perfect, and seem to show 2500+ years of age... but they also seem too good to be true. He seems to think they are 'high end fakes' and the only way of knowing really is to do a chemical test on the bronze. I just hope they do that at the British Museum. You would think so. He seems to think they'll only give a verbal opinion. Then it's on to the auction houses for a price appraisal Big smile
-Allan
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2010 at 09:50
Originally posted by Cryptic

I guess I was wrong about the Indo/ Greek / Buddhist possibility.  
 
It is going to be great if they are authentic. I have dreams of stumbling across a valuable antiquity that is hiding in plain sight.  So far, however, I have not had any luck... 
 
 
The closest I ever came to finding anything like this was approx. 20 years ago.  I stumbled onto a Ching Dyn. Bronze Eagle in a yard sale.  I paid 20 bucks for it.  It went for 6,500 at Freeman's in Phila. [Regional auction house].  There is a popular saying, Chance favors the pepared mind.  How many people picked up that eagle before I did?  I was the only one who spotted the dynasty stamp and could tell which dyn. it represented.  Paying attention in History classes has a way of paying off all it's own sometimes.
Like being forced to memorize the signers of the Declaration of Independence in the 8th grade, and then years later spot a signers name on an old doc. in a church thrift shop, for 5 bucks. 
 
Keep looking. Big smile
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2010 at 09:26
Originally posted by ColonelAllan

 I need to ensure the relevant people will be there when I get there since it's so far away. I'm going to try to make an appointment today and explain everything that has happened so far. I really don't know what I'm doing, but I'll keep you posted on any revelations!
 
 
If I had anything like these objects, I would take them to Christy's in NYC.  Doesn't Christy's have an Auction house in the UK?  They Used to have one in London, Soethby's also.
 
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2010 at 22:54
I guess I was wrong about the Indo/ Greek / Buddhist possibility.  
 
It is going to be great if they are authentic. I have dreams of stumbling across a valuable antiquity that is hiding in plain sight.  So far, however, I have not had any luck... 
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2010 at 05:56
 I need to ensure the relevant people will be there when I get there since it's so far away. I'm going to try to make an appointment today and explain everything that has happened so far. I really don't know what I'm doing, but I'll keep you posted on any revelations!
-Allan
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2010 at 20:25
My dear Allan!

What wonderful news! So go ahead and do it!!!

I will still stick to my original guess, which was, as I remember, Etruscan!

Again, please keep us all posted!

Regards,
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2010 at 17:25
Just had a reply from he auction website I sent the pics to. I'll include it here but I'll leave off the name of the sender incase I might be breaching privacy laws etc;
 
Dear Allan,

Thank you for your email and the attached images. Our valuers have now considered your items. They are certainly archaic 6th century BC style due to the specialist nature of these items we recommend that the best course of action is to take them to the British Museum who can authenticate them for you. If correct and with authentication the items could be worth thousands of pounds, if however they are not of age they will have a purely decorative value.

Kind regards,

So now I'm going to try to arrange an appointment at the British Museum for a close examination, which is quite far from here actually... but everything seems promising so far and I'm happy to keep you posted!
-Allan
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2010 at 21:24
Ah! The old lotus and the cock figurine?

Possibly quite correct!
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Posts: 74 		  Quote ColonelAllan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2010 at 16:48
That's another branch of research for me to look into. Thanks!
-Allan
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2010 at 16:32
Originally posted by ColonelAllan

I don't know about the 'conical fruit'. Personally I think if it is meant to represent corn (and non of the statue is stylized, it's all quite realistic) then it's strange how they haven't cross-hatched it to look like rows of ears, since they were obviously capable of delicate work as present in the pattern work on the clothing etc. As it stands....it's a mystery fruit or veg Big smile
 
I think the "fruit / vegetable" is a lotus and the figurines are from the Indo-Greek Buddhist culture (Kashmir, Pakistan, Afghanistan). The blending of the Greek, asiatic and Indo-Pakistani cultures created culturally and stylisticaly blended figurines. 
 
Note the asiatic features of some of the figurines.  The region attracted Buddhist scholars, student and merchants from China.  Also the pieces were found in an old British collection.  If I am right, I bet the owner collected them during the colonial era.
 
Though fakes of this culture have been introduced to the market, the introduction has been recent and has coincided with the rising interest in Buddhist artificats.   The collection is old and I bet it is genuine. (providing I am correct about the figurinesWink) 


Edited by Cryptic - 07-Oct-2010 at 16:58
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