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Just where was Babylon?

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Just where was Babylon?
    Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 16:45
Because i believe that this was just a temple,Ziggurat that was destroyed,but the bible created the rest.
Discovery channel show the place where someone suppose,were foundations of this temple.My personal opinion is that this one can be close to capitol town.Ziggurat of religion opponent to that one that supported power of new King was destroyed,like it is spoken in Bible.Premise is:name of the temple is Babylonian, but there is no such place.We are searching for place where tower was!?!Ekbatana like residency for King is one of many possibilities.Let us check the rest.Where did religious temples(centers) were those days?
   Luxor,Amarna,Thebes,Memphis etc...were for Egypt.What about Persia?
  Or out of Persia?Sinai is place with mixed population.Gaza also.Name was created Greater than temple was.


Edited by medenaywe - 01-Feb-2011 at 16:57
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 16:52
Perhaps I could have mis-interpreted your above points, but any attractions found in Iraq or any place where-by "mud-bricks" were used for the construction, are mostly left within the "eye of the be-holder!"

A mere base of rubble, does not a pyramid, nor a "tower to God", make!
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 17:31
Why not the great ziggurat of Jiroft? The largest ancient man-made building, I had compared it to the pyramid of Khufu in Egypt:
 
 
 
According to the Book of Genesis, the tower of Babel was in Shinar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinar as you read the Egyptian term was Sangara, both names can be found aroud Jiroft in the Kerman province, Shinarrud (Shinar-rud = River of Shinar) in Kerman: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m4346995/shinarrud.html and Shingara: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m4347003/shingara.html As you see that is between Jiroft and Darb-e-Behesht (Gate of Heaven).
 
 
 I think Shinar can be even related to Konar, where the jiroft civilization has been found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiroft_culture


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 01-Feb-2011 at 17:34
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2011 at 17:57
Pictures from Jiroft: http://ivmp.wordpress.com/category/history/before-islam/jiroft-civilization/
 
The gates and great ziggurat of Jiroft in front of a river:
 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel -> Gregory of Tours (I, 6) writing ca. 594, quotes the earlier historian Orosius (ca. 417) as saying the tower was "laid out foursquare on a very level plain. Its wall, made of baked brick cemented with pitch, is fifty cubits wide, two hundred high, and four hundred and seventy stades in circumference. A stade contains five agripennes. Twenty-five gates are situated on each side, which make in all one hundred. The doors of these gates, which are of wonderful size, are cast in bronze. The same historian Orosius tells many other tales of this city, and says: 'Although such was the glory of its building still it was conquered and destroyed.'"
 
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2011 at 04:10
Nice pictures.One possible object that could match with story we have.I believe this one was shown on Discovery channel.Were there written signs about ancient name of that place?Do we have some derivation of word "Gate of God"inside this biblical form of name we use today?Modern slang from ancient name because it sounds better.


Edited by medenaywe - 02-Feb-2011 at 15:41
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2011 at 10:00
Cyrus, it is not your description that upsets me, it is the vision of the upside down "arches" that upset your theory! Perhaps the depicitons would be more accurate if they were displayed up-side down?

Also, if one looks for a definition of the word "Shinar", etc., you will find this site;

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Shinar.html

As well as this one;

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/2010-April/041515.html

It seems all is not clear on this particular point!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 02-Feb-2011 at 10:04
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2011 at 22:08
Sorry Cyrus, if you replied to the above post, I might well have missed it?

But, I think that I have reached a relative position, where-by, one must either respond or by de-fault, agree with the last post above!

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2011 at 22:18
Cyrus, if the old "experts" acutally mis read the "stones" and "Babylon" was actually a place in Egypt,then what difference would it make in your "chronology?"

Could you assume such a mistake might have been made?

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 07-Feb-2011 at 22:21
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2011 at 10:03
A name never changes anything, we know there was a large and important city in Mesopotamia with the name of Babylon, as I said there could some other cities in other parts of the world but archaeological findings in the Mesopotamian city show the importance of this one.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2011 at 13:11
European migration in America have almost all possible habitats names.Names that once belonged to places they had came from.Even Atlantis exists today even its real existence we still have not approved until today
Why do you think that migration those days was different?Alexandria,Phillip etc...also Babylon we can found  all around during excavations in ancient world.Persians were in Egypt.Proof is third text,the last one,  on Roseta stone.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 19:45
Mendenaywe!

Of course you are correct about the numerous names of cities we now know are reputedly know to exist, that were reportedly named after Alexander the Great!

All I can say is "Bull-sh-t!"

Just how about all of the cities that can be evaluated or translated as "New Cities?" (Neo-polis?), or even those who connect to "Troy?" (Troius/Troai/other examples?)


Various versions of "Troy", either now exist or did exist during the Middle Ages!

France had at least one, as did Italy!

Edited by opuslola - 09-Feb-2011 at 19:47
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 19:53
Cyrus showed us this:

"Pictures from Jiroft: http://ivmp.wordpress.com/category/history/before-islam/jiroft-civilization/

The gates and great ziggurat of Jiroft in front of a river:"

To describe a small remain found in the area!

But, to connect a seven or eight layer, (eight or ten story home) so called Ziggarat, to a Pyramid, is revolting!

It is obvious that the representation shown is or could be merely a good representation of the skill it took to take to make a residence for a "god" or a "king" or "queen", in the building prowness of mud brick exploitation into the sky!

You might, well want to review my above mention of thise sites?

"Also, if one looks for a definition of the word "Shinar", etc., you will find this site;

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Shinar.html

" The etymology or meaning of the name Shinar is unknown.

Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names derives it from (sh'r 2437). The root idea is to split open, to break through. Derivative (sha'ar 2437a) means gate. But this explanation fails to incorporate the letter nun.

More appealing is the word (na'ar 1387-1389):
(na'ar 1387) means to growl.
(na'ar 1388) means shake, shake out or off.
(na'ar 1389) is the root for words like (na'ar 1389a), boy, youth, and (na'ar 1389b), youth, early life.

This root preceded by the relative particle , meaning who, which, that, yields That What Is Young (or Shakes, Growls).

The name Shinar may even remind of a combination of the words (shin 2422a), tooth, from the verb (shanan 2422), sharpen, both literally and figuratively of the mind or intellect; and ('ar 2930a), foe, and Aramaic loan word which is very sporadically used in the Hebrew text of the Bible. The latter may also be a contraction of the much more common word ('ir 1615), city. That would bring the meaning of Shinar to Tooth Town, or City Of Wit."

As well as this one;

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/2010-April/041515.html

It seems all is not clear on this particular point!"




Edited by opuslola - 09-Feb-2011 at 20:07
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2011 at 20:10
I also note no mention of my "retort" concerning the obvious depiction of a reverse "vault" or "Arch", etc., in the above cylinderical depictions of some small pieces shown by Cyrus!

I.e., "Sagging arches!"

Edited by opuslola - 09-Feb-2011 at 20:11
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2011 at 02:08
My premise:Temple,biggest? one, was Gate of God.Need derivation something like "town/place where Gate of God is".Religious picture patterns were included inside Islam from Cristian religion also.Many temples can
be included inside the list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_in_Jerusalem
http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterThree/TowerOfBabel.htm
also this one keeps the gates in newer Persian religion remake:
http://www.crystalinks.com/janus.html
here they talk official about it:
http://www.shirhadash.org/rabbi/01/04/13/hallel.html
Egyptian temples:
http://www.king-tut.org.uk/ancient-egypt/egyptian-temples.htm
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=21&chapid=106
 In the same time name gives us "Gates of God" monotheistic religion during government of Kingship of
polytheism.One more reason temple to be destroyed.


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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2011 at 19:59
Dear medenaywe, from this source you gave above;

http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterThree/TowerOfBabel.htm

You will be very able to distinguish at least two old gods, that is "El", and "Min", which are now thought to be the gods of Isra-el, and Egypt, respectively!

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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2011 at 20:13
And, your use of this site;

http://www.crystalinks.com/janus.html

Only leaves everyone with other problems, well at least me!

Janus is obviously just a verson of John, Jon, Jahan, Ion, Gian, etc.!

Do some word examinations of the various versions of John, etc., and maybe you will come to some other determinations?
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2011 at 20:16
Using this source;

http://www.shirhadash.org/rabbi/01/04/13/hallel.html

You are only getting a middle ages determination of words supposedly written hundres or thousands of years earlier, without the use of vowels!

I really do not have the time nor the patience to go thru all of your sources!

Perhaps, based upon my above postings, you might well go thru them again yourself, and see if your ideas are the same?

I also again offer my comments from above, thus;

"Also, if one looks for a definition of the word "Shinar", etc., you will find this site;

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Shinar.html

As well as this one;

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/2010-April/041515.html

It seems all is not clear on this particular point!"

Thus if one special point is discredited then what about all that follows it?

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 11-Feb-2011 at 20:21
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2011 at 20:25
As well Cyrus, as regards your site shown above, it says;

"The Jiroft Civilization (Persian تمدن جيرفت) is a proposed Early Bronze Age civilization of Sistan, Iran (fl. ca. 26th century BC). It was proposed by Yousef Madjidzadeh in 2003 based on archaeological artefacts confiscated by Iranian authorities. White Muscarella (2005) expresses serious doubt in the validity of the “Jiroft Civilization” as an archaeological entity. The Jiroft site itself is of undisputed notability as a mid-3rd millennium city situated between the Elamite civilization to the west and the Indus Valley civilization to the east. here are some pictures. click on each for larger image."

You will quickly see that this source is not a valid one! The words "validity",and "Proposed", and "serious doubt", etc., cast some "doubt" upon the assumptions you consider as valid!



Edited by opuslola - 11-Feb-2011 at 20:27
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Feb-2011 at 20:39
You know, it is great that a lot of peoples like to claim certain events thought to have existed in the distant past to their own civilizatons!

But this is to be expected, when "enlightened men and women" in the 18th and 19th centuries AD, decided just what was "ancient" as well as those things that were just "not as ancient!"

Actually none of them could actually tell wheter or not 100 years or 1,000 years seperated the treasures they stole from the Orient?

But, if you believe modern archeaeology, they now seem to have found that "science" has provided "Proof" of their (the looters of the 19th century and earlier) datings!

Thus, since the "Whores" of science, that is "14C" dating and its relatives, have since basically supported the datings given by those great "Lords" and "traders" of the 18th thru the early 20th century CE, had already placed into "Print!", or if you please "the reproductible versions of earllier works!"

That is, as soon as the results of the non-scientific exumations of the earlier centuries, had been redacted to "printible" and "reproductional" versions, then it began to become "TRUTH!"
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2011 at 05:23
Yes I agree about:History main repackage period,also bulls.t...We have different approach only.My posts stress non logical parts of history and develop the story of possibilities.Usage of fornication all around the people that debate about this one,marking my ideas territory, does not help the screenplay development,doesn't  it?
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