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Evulution vs Creationism
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Poll Question: Which one do you belive
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aknc View Drop Down
Chieftain
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Posts: 1449 		  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Evulution vs Creationism
    Posted: 07-May-2005 at 15:43
Originally posted by eaglecap

[QUOTE=aknc]

I am sorry Yiannis it is a totally unproven theory. show me in the fossil record where it shows one species evolving into another, too many gaps. I do not deny of its possibility but it is still a theory and not fact!!



eaglecap i can easliy say that your sources are limited on the matter.


Evolution is a proven theory,It has been proven that there is a change.


Fossil record is one of the biggest proofs of evolution.If there was o evolution,one would find human bons in the same layer as dinasaurs.Yes,there is a gap,but it proves evolution.


You need some information on natural selection,mutation,adaptation and the theory of evolution itself.


It is not a possibility,there is a change




I am sorry you have been so brainwashed. I have taken numeous evolutionary classes when I started college and it takes a lot of faith to believe in this as anything other then just a theory. There is no evidence of one species evolving into another in the fossil record. why don't you take Dr. Hovinds challenge and get the $250,000 if you are so convinced that it is a fact, challenge him I dare you to!! lol
My sources are much deeper than you think and I do have two college degrees. Dr. Hovind is the best person to challenge so go for it!!! Also Dr. Eastman
see his link:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/[/QUOTE]

I am skipping all your d hovinds and going strait to the point:

I am not brainwashed,i cannot.Usally the creationists are,they broke two of my ribs for saying the word"evolution"

Why are you giving examples from unnown dr that strongly go with hoc moves but not straait your point out with logical reasons and facts?

Yes.You are a two diploma graduate that thinks that the only proof for evolution is the rock strata

the rock strata proves that creationism is not real sceince.
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 01:54
Originally posted by demon

CREATIONISM IS A SCIENCE.


Visit www.creationscience.com if you don't believe me. Creationism challenges macroevolution (origin of speciation), not microevolution(change in frequency of alleles).    


Originally posted by akyncy


eaglecap i can easliy say that your sources are limited on the matter.


Evolution is a proven theory,It has been proven that there is a change.


Fossil record is one of the biggest proofs of evolution.If there was o evolution,one would find human bons in the same layer as dinasaurs.Yes,there is a gap,but it proves evolution.


You need some information on natural selection,mutation,adaptation and the theory of evolution itself.


It is not a possibility,there is a change


You should better read about "punctuated equilibrium" theorem, "gradualism" theorem, "Miller Urey experiment", "photobionts/ribozymes" "endosymbiotic theorem".....Basically you need to re-educate yourself in the area of Evolution. Survival of the Fittest is not always the case of evolution, you know.



Your source is not believable because it is a believer in the creation myth stating that it is science. In other words, it is science because it is telling us so itself.

Puntuated equilibrium states that there is rapid change in a short period of time. It explains why there isn't a constant rate of evolution, and also rapid change in the fosil record. This is a further refinement of the theory of evolution, not a rebuttal.

Survival of the fittest was never meant to mean the survival of the ruthless. All what it meant was that whoever was that if a species had adaptations that allowed it to reproduce under the current environment, it would survive. This is still true. Our misunderstanding of the Darwin's use of the word "fit" doesn't invalidate his statement.


Another reason why evolution is not science, is because its aim is not to find truth through the scientific method, but to provide "scientific" arguments to their religious beliefs.

In other words, creationism is theology using "science" to prove the existence and validity of the revelations of god as written in the Bible.

If you doubt this, explain why only believers are creationists?
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:07

The great thing about the scientist is he has no obstacles to change his thinking.  He may be wrong and he will have to accept it but the field of science is innately superior because:

Science is about acknowldeging we know nothing, and seeking to understand everything, with acknowledged stumbles along the way.

Religion is blind belief that one knows everything, that one is right, and that there is no room for revision.  It is based on fear that one may not know what is happening, and that there may be no absolutes out there.

I also think theres a hearty fear of death and fear being insignificant in there too, perhaps its pychological...

Thats just a thought I had to share.
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Posts: 1449 		  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 06:46

To be as clear as possible at the very outset: Kent Hovind's "offer" has nothing to do with the validity of the vast body of evidence, from a breathtakingly broad range of disciplines, that establishes the Theory of Evolution as one of the bedrocks of modern science. His challenge, as will be seen, is a mere humbug without value in any rational appraisal of science. The terms of the offer are formulated to be unattainable and it would be nothing but a total waste of time and effort for any proponent of evolution to participate in his charade. The only intent of the offer is to gull the credulous and confuse the uninformed.

 

 

that is what it said in the site

 
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Posts: 589 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2005 at 22:26

There is a lot of confusion here about meaning of the scientific theory. Scientific theory is not an opinion as some of you suggest. It is unfortunate that in the common language, theory is often equated with opinion. Creationism on other hand can be considered an opinion or belief. Scientific theory has to be well proven to become one.

One of interesting proofs of evolution is the gene sharing, We share genes with fish and amphibians and other lower animals. It is interesting that sometime these genes malfunction and we get babies born with tails or vestigal gills. This could imply incompetence on the part of Creator.

Does that mean that we are created by some incompetent entity?

Are we defective?

 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2005 at 22:54

It seems to me that both  "sides" of the argument are unwilling to even glance at the opposing view. This comes down to the idea that this is an argument between the religious community and the scientific. I see it going nowhere fast.
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Posts: 130 		  Quote Herodotus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 19:14

Both spontaneous origin and evolution are as well proven as any other aspect of science, with evidence abounding from nearly every field: geology, biology, genetics, anthropology, chemistry, climatology, etc. The only reason for the disbeleif in evolution, as opposed to gravity (which is no better proven), is the widespread beleif that the former contradicts religion.

 
"Dieu est un comdien jouant une assistance trop effraye de rire."
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
-Francois Marie Arouet, Voltaire

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Posts: 589 		  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 20:15
Originally posted by Herodotus

Both spontaneous origin and evolution are as well proven as any other aspect of science, with evidence abounding from nearly every field: geology, biology, genetics, anthropology, chemistry, climatology, etc. The only reason for the disbeleif in evolution, as opposed to gravity (which is no better proven), is the widespread beleif that the former contradicts religion.

 

I tried to stir the debate in this direction. What religious zealots don't get is that creators and gods are not the same. With the rate of science turnover of 20 years and accelerating, we will have the full mastery of gene manipulations within 40 - 60 years. We will be able to create higher life forms at will and thus become creators. Lower life forms (pryons or viruses, I dont remember) were created from scratch few years ago.  This is all happening when some people are still debating merits of the Babylonian era science.

Religion and science do not and should not intersect. Religion belongs to Humanities and Arts field and to subject it to empirical and experimental scrutiny just doesnt make sense.

All creationist brouhaha in the United States was started after the Supreme Court blocked zealots trying to teach the biblical creation as equal to evolution. The creationsim is a pseudo science created as back door entry into the school curricula.

I saw few days ago a reportage showing a creationist museum being open (cost: 20 millions dollars) in which dinosaurs wore saddles like horses ( I guess the zealots have problem to fit them in the Noahs Ark) and Eve looked like a Scandinavian babe, with perfectly combed and shampooed hair.

What is bad is that some religions, Christianity included, try to control all aspects of the human endeavors. They also have tendency to breed deranged zealotry that just cannot focus on the human spirituality alone.

When I listen to these zealots, imagery of cows looking at the passing train comes to my mind.

I recommend the last Carl Sagans Book The Demon-Haunted World; Science As a Candle in the Dark. This is pretty interesting reading.

 

 

 



Edited by cavalry4ever
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2005 at 23:02
Originally posted by Tribunus militum

It seems to me that both "sides" of the argument are unwilling to even glance at the opposing view. This comes down to the idea that this is an argument between the religious community and the scientific. I see it going nowhere fast.



Some evolutionists have looked at the creationist's side. It's a total riot.

Believers in the creation myth are really proving the validity of the Bible with pseudo-science. They are practicing theology and, just as they do with the Bible, twisting the spirit of science to confirm their beliefs. This is simply not science.

The problem is the extremists. Their desire to control all human activity prevents them from dropping this silly debate. They just cannot stand dissent in any form. God, save us from them.



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Posts: 740 		  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 08:58
The missing link has not been found, thus it is not a proven fact.
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 09:46
Originally posted by OSMANLI

The missing link has not been found, thus it is not a proven fact.


We don't need a[/a] missing link. We already have many "missing links." In fact, we keep finding more and more as the years go by.

Besides, the whole idea of needed a "missing link" to prove evolution is outdated, belonging more in cheap sci-fi comic book plots than in scientific discussion.

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Posts: 1449 		  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2005 at 12:49

today i had a little chat with my driver,he is muslim,and i asked him about evolution

he said:

"bah!they see sth. mutate and they all go,evolve our great master darvin!"

this is no worse than saying evolution is not proven,and i wonder,why are creationists so hostile to evolutionists?

I mean,look what h.m. Morris(a leading creationist) said;

"Evolution is the root of atheism,of communism,nazism,behaviourism,economic imperialism,militarism,libertinism,anarchism,and all manner of anti-christian systems of belief or practice"

sad ain't it?

 

 
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Posts: 740 		  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 07:33
Well, Nazism and Racism have their excuse for their bahaviour in the evolution theory
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Posts: 1449 		  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 08:24
no,maybe in a hospital
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Posts: 188 		  Quote Idanthyrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2005 at 13:49

Originally posted by OSMANLI

Well, Nazism and Racism have their excuse for their bahaviour in the evolution theory

There was plenty of racism on this planet before Charles Darwin was ever born.

Has anyone here heard about the Greek philosopher Anaximander? He was one of the earliest thinkers to develop a systematic philosophical view of the physical universe. He had an evolutionary view of the origin of life, holding that it arose in the sea, and that human evolved from some more primtive species.



Edited by Idanthyrus
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