Originally posted by eaglecap
Christianity has just as dark of a past as Islam does.
I would say that CHristianity is responsible for more crimes in history
than islam is. The Crusades, the inquisition, etc...But thats all deep
in the past. Time to move on and let the past be the past.
I can agree that Christianity and all religions have their dark
side but as for more atrocities I do not agree with that. read; The
Myth of Islamic Tolerance by Robert Spencer
There are Islamic terrorists and there are Christian terrorists.
What do you think abortion clinic bombers are? I call them Christian
terrorists.
There is no comparison between the two and what few Christian
terrorists there are it is condemned by the church and it is of
localized and not on a global scale like Islam. The Bible(New
Testement) does not ask its followers to kill non- believers. And, both
Jews and Christians today no longer take the Torah to the degree the
early Hebrews did. Why aren't very many moderate Muslims condemning the
actions of the radicals? There are a few voices but most are quiet or
indirect in their apology-double talk.
I hold no grudge against some group that may have committed a crime
long before I was ever born. This is just another reason why religion
is the true evil.
We are on the same side and what you say is true but religion is
not the only problem, the Communist killed millions of the people as
well-Stalin. In some way the Communist Chinese government could be the
bigger threat to America than the radical Muslims.
On another thought. Why not just get rid of the term "Islamic
terrorists" and "Christian terrorists"?? Lets just call them all
"Religious terrorists" Because thats what they are. No need to
categorize them. They are all the same- not all terrorist are
religious.
Any kind of terrorism is evil and yes there are Christian terrorist
but they are small compared to the span of terrorism brought on by
radical Islam.
This all just goes to show that the governments of the world need to become as secular as humanly possible.
Christianity has reformed over the years to allow our current
seperation of church and state, but currently true Islam cannot be
based on seperation of church and state like you have in former
Christian nations. Turkey is the only exception and even then it has
its problems with true freedom of religion. Islam would have to go
through a reformation much like Christianity has but I wonder if this
is possible. If you look at the core of the Haddith and the Koran is
this is ever possible, I hope it is.
Name one of our founding fathers who was a Muslim.
I am currently reading:
Islam Unveiled by Robert Spencer |
you sound very racist and ignorant
Islam not being a religon of peace?
First of all I don't think that you have the credentials to state such a claim in the first place.
http://www.islamicfoundationvp.org/RECIPEFORWORLDPEACE.pdf
surah 1 - ayat 135 :
"Believers!
Be upholders of justice, and bearers of witness to truth for the sake
of Allah, even though it may either be against yourselves or agaisnt
your parents and kinsmen, or the rich or the poor: for Allah is more
concerned with their well-being than you are. Do not, then, follow your
own desires lest you keep away from justice. If you twist or turn away
from (the truth), know that Allah is well aware of all that you do."
surah 5 - ayat 32:
"Whoesoever kills a human bieng unless it be (in punishment( for murder
or
for spreading mischief on earth, it shall be as if he had slain all
manking; and he who saves a life shall be as if he had given lfie to
all mankind..."
I.E. do not associate a terrorist who "claims"
affiliation to Islam as an Isalmic terrorist just like the west never
lables timothy mcveigh and the IRA as Christian terroists, they are all
in the same pot to me and neither religion condoes such behavior
therefore if either one of them does such a deed he is out of the ranks
of believers of either religion. that is one bias that keeps coming up
in the west and that is much more to do with the villizantion of Islam
and the Islamic world for the past 1500 years than it has to do with
the religon itself.
surah 6 - ayat 151:
"do not kill a person, which Allah has made sacred except through the due process of law."
--Sunnah---
Propeht Muhammads sayings " Among all the sins, the greatest sins are
to associate someone or something with God and to kill human beings."
more proof on my behalf
From the Quran and Shariah
Surah 6
" If some non-Muslim state opresses its Muslim citizens, it is not premissible for any
Islamic
state anywhere in the world to retaliate agaisnt its own non-Muslim
subjects; even if all the Muslims living in a non-Muslim state are
massacred, no Muslim state canunjustly shed the blood of a single
non-Muslim citizen, in retalitation, living within its boundaries
because it is agaisnt Islamic Law."
Surah 5 - Ayat 2
"Cooperate
with each one another for virtue and piety and do not cooperate with
one another for the purpose of evil and agression."
In other
words do not form a organization to destroy human lives, etc, because
you are not part of the Ummah as of that time. I.E. the community of
Muslims. and you are not to be called a muslim if you do such.
Islamic
armies conquer Damascus, Hams and the remaining towns of Syria and
according to the terms of the treaty they realize some amount of tax
for the protection of the life and property of the citizens and the
defense of the country (634 A.D., within two years after Prophet
Muhammad SAW). But later the Muslim leaders received news that
Heraclius had brought a big army which he was anxious to bring against
the Muslims. Therefore they decided to bring together their own
scattered armies in various conquered towns to concentrate at one point
to face the hordes of Heraclius with joint effort. So in keeping with
this decision our armies started leaving the towns of Hams, Damascus
and other towns. Khalid in Hams, Abu Ubaidah in Damascus and other
generals in other towns addressed the citizens thus:
"The money
or monies we had realized from you was meant for the protection of your
lives and properties, and also to defend your lands from outside
aggression. But we are sorry to inform you that we are parting with you
and since we would not be able to protect and defend you, we are
returning the amounts of taxes collected from you."
To this the citizens said in reply:
"God be with you and bring you back victorious. Your governance and
your justice and equity have enamored us, since the Romans in spite of
being our coreligionists, we have bitter experience of their oppression
and tyranny. By God! If they had been in your position they would not
have returned a copper out of the taxes collected from us. Rather, they
would have taken away everything they could from here belonging to us."
Sheikh-al-Islam Ibn Taimiyah Liberated Jews and Christians
When
the Tartars made a sudden assault on Syria and took countless men from
Muslims, Jews and Christians as prisoners, Sheikh-al-Islam
Ibn-e-Taimiyah talked to the Tartar Chief about the release of the
prisoners. The Chief gave his assent for the release of the Muslim
prisoners but refused to do so in the case of the Jews and the
Christians. But Sheikh-al-Islam did not agree and insisted on the
release of the Jews and the Christians, who, he told him, were the
Zimmis (Dhimmis) of the Islamic state and were bound to them. They
could not let even one individual remain in captivity whether he
belonged to their own community or from those living with them under a
covenant.
In Spain under the Umayyads and in Baghdad under
the Abbasid Khalifas, Christians and Jews, equally with Muslims, were
admitted to the Schools and universities - not only that, but were
boarded and lodged in hostels at the cost of the state. When the Moors
were driven out of Spain, the Christian conquerors held a terrific
persecution of the Jews. Those who were fortunate enough to escape
fled, some of them to Morocco and many hundreds to the Turkish empire,
where their descendants still live in separate communities, and still
speak among themselves an antiquated form of Spanish. The Muslim empire
was a refuge for all those who fled from persecution by the Inquisition.
Surah 2 - Ayat 256
"There
is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth
distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth
in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is
Hearer, Knower.
meaning to be a true muslim you cannot convert
someone forcibly you can invite him to accept your relgion and that is
up to him if he is willing to adhere to it. Sure there has been
forceful conversions sometimes by some muslim generals but then again
there has been Christian states I.E. colonial spain and portugal
converting Native Americans enmasse and Germany converting Saxons and
slaughtering reverts under Charlemagne. But im not trying to say that
that is the way of the Qu'ran or the Bible im defending the religion
not the people who claim that they do something behidn the veil of
religion because that is not what the Qu'ran obviously teaches it tells
you if you do act in this fashion your Iman(faith) will be nonexistent
and you cannot be a faithful muslim. You become a Kafir a Kafir is not
the follower of any relgion it is the muslim and any other who does not
belive in god or god's plan for humanity.
In 628 C.E. Prophet
Muhammad (s) granted a Charter of Privileges to the monks of St.
Catherine Monastery in Mt. Sinai. It consisted of several clauses
covering all aspects of human rights including such topics as the
protection of Christians, freedom of worship and movement, freedom to
appoint their own judges and to own and maintain their property,
exemption from military service, and the right to protection in war.
An English translation of that document is presented below.
This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those
who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I,
the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because
Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything
that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them.
Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and
disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure
charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.
The Muslims are to fight for them.
If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place
without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her
church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are
neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their
covenants.
No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).
Surah 5 - Ayat 69
Those
who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures),
and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the
Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall
they grieve.
but im sure many here will dismiss this and still
belive that Islam is a violent religon and when compared to
Christianity it tolerates other much more. It is Christianty that dooms
anyone who does not belive in Jesus as the saviour. Islam claims that
all that belive in god wheter muslim christian jew or none but belive
in god will have their chance to enter heaven
I am merely
stating facts to your misinformed claim that comes more from a millenia
old villification of Islam than real facts. I am merely trying to say
that a muslim terrorist is not a real muslim and should be called
simply terrorist because that is not what the religion teaches it
teaches peace among humanity. and im saying the same about a christian
terrorist he is no more a christian to me either beacause both books
condem such acts.