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flyingzone
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Topic: Why are intellectuals overwhelmingly leftist? Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 21:11 |
On the eve of the Canadian federal election, I made an informal survey among my colleagues - for which party are you going to vote? I wasn't surprised by the answer - no one was even remotely interested in voting for the Conservatives. And this wasn't just the case in the two departments (psychology and sociology - in sociology, there's actually a Marxist-Leninist) that I belong to. It's the same with anthropology, geography, English, and ESPECIALLY history. Looking at the "profiles" of these individuals, there is nothing in common among them - the oldest are in their 60's and the youngest are in their 20's; male and female (of course); ALL ethnicities ("Anglo"-Canadian, French-Canadian, Jewish, Blacks, Arabs, Asians, Greeks, Italians, and plenty of Americans); mostly straight but one or two gay/bisexual; some religious but mostly not. The only denominator that connects all of us - we all have graduate degrees in various disciplines.
I cannot speak for all North American colleges and universities and I am very sure (1) there are exceptions and (2) there certainly exists some important regional differences, but I have the impression that leftists seem to be disproportionately represented among intellectuals and college/university faculties. Why? Is there a "leftist bug" that can be caught by those who read (and probably think) too much?
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Maju
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Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 21:22 |
Sure: the left has always promoted education as one of their main
tools, while the rigth is intelectually lazy and prefers their slaves not to know too much. Knowledge is intelectual emancipation.
Also knowledge makes people aware of the problems and they the look for
possible solutions and all solution recipe books are leftist, except
for those that say that there is no solution: that humankind is
hopeless, and limit themselves to technicalims.
Technical scholars (engineers, economists and such) are usually rightist. The more techical the more conservative.
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eaglecap
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Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 21:40 |
you sound a tad bit bias there and full of too much Hubris!!!
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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Cywr
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 05:30 |
Its split by subject, economists and solicitors tend to go right,
social sciences and English lit crowd tend to go left, historians and
scientists aim all over the place or don't care at all. Could be linked
to money for all i know, economists and solocitors want to keep their
bloated pay cheques
Its the philosophers i'm most intrested in, as they are supposed to
have the highest average IQs. Followed by teh phycists, seeing as some
societies glorify IQs to moronic degrees, surely they'd be intrested in
listening to what those have to say? Or not.
One of the things that turned me off about some of the social sciences
modules i was doing at uni, was the way some of the students just went
along with a particular idea/theory because if suited their ideological
viewpoint, instead of discussiong in depth, or suggesting new ways to
test a hypothesis (which a lot of 'social theories' really are), it was
just accepted at face value, even though the lecturers were clearly
trying to get the students to think outside the box and all.
That and the fact that British universities serious need to do more to
provide cross-disiplinary opportunities, especialy considering how many
humanities/social sciences degrees are essentialy non-specialist
degrees that don't lead directly to specific jobs.
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Richard XIII
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 11:59 |
I'll send you a theory but my daughter (she moves me from center to moderate right, this "moderate" is for ex soviet satellites (Mosquito knows) and true right for western europe (Mosquito knows)) waits me. Sorry!
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"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 13:00 |
Knowledge is intelectual emancipation. |
I totally agree. Even the most conservative academic institution is more left wing than a village or town. Because without knowledge, people are slaves dead people. Conservativism- reaction, is the rule of the dead men over the living. Where people learn, they gather perspective, and when they have perspective, it becomes difficult to make them believe that their leaders know the best for them, that their country is the best, that their religion is the only true religion...
Similarly, it is a well known fact that the city dwellers are more left-wing than people who live smaller communities.
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poirot
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 13:05 |
I am an engineer and I am in the far left.
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Loknar
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 13:15 |
Flyingzone, those that study, and are professors of history means nothing. It is the trend of this day and age, nothing more. Its merely their personal belief and I promise you history didnt influence it.
The fact that somebody leans to the right or left makes them closed minded. This includes so called intellectuals. A real open minded person would not label them selves as liberal or conservative. When you go right or left, in your initial open mindness, you then ultimately become closed minded and hang on to that political leaning. So frankly, I dont care about what professors or average joes believe. I dont respect the beliefs of uni professors, frankly, they arent the best thing since sliced bread. Its easy to sit at a round table, swirling wine, talking with a British accent about how the left is so great, or how the right is so pure.
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Genghis
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 13:21 |
I would say that it depends on who you talk to. Literature and Art professors and the like tend to go to the left, but the economics, engineering, and other such departments are more conservative. It also depends on which institution you go to. Here at my university, Virginia Tech, it is very conservative as a whole because we were established as a technical school and a lot of our students and professors come from conservative areas.
My opinion is that people like English professors are liberal is because they're isolated from the real world and unlike technical specialists needn't worry about things like efficiency so long as there are intangible aspects which gratify them like "fairness" and "caring".
I'm also an engineering major, and I'm very conservative.
Edited by Genghis
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Genghis
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 13:24 |
Originally posted by Cywr
how many humanities/social sciences degrees are essentialy non-specialist degrees that don't lead directly to specific jobs.
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My mother once told me that one of her friend's daughters got a degree in ancient Greek and basically works at a computer doing data-entry, something that doesn't even require a degree.
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Genghis
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 13:28 |
Originally posted by flyingzone
On the eve of the Canadian federal election, I made an informal survey among my colleagues - for which party are you going to vote? I wasn't surprised by the answer - no one was even remotely interested in voting for the Conservatives. And this wasn't just the case in the two departments (psychology and sociology - in sociology, there's actually a Marxist-Leninist) that I belong to. It's the same with anthropology, geography, English, and ESPECIALLY history. Looking at the "profiles" of these individuals, there is nothing in common among them - the oldest are in their 60's and the youngest are in their 20's; male and female (of course); ALL ethnicities ("Anglo"-Canadian, French-Canadian, Jewish, Blacks, Arabs, Asians, Greeks, Italians, and plenty of Americans); mostly straight but one or two gay/bisexual; some religious but mostly not. The only denominator that connects all of us - we all have graduate degrees in various disciplines.
I cannot speak for all North American colleges and universities and I am very sure (1) there are exceptions and (2) there certainly exists some important regional differences, but I have the impression that leftists seem to be disproportionately represented among intellectuals and college/university faculties. Why? Is there a "leftist bug" that can be caught by those who read (and probably think) too much?
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Notice, you still only asked humanities and social scientists. If you asked engineers, economists, physicists, and chemists you probably would have had some people say they were going to vote for the Conservative party.
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Genghis
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 13:36 |
double post
Edited by Genghis
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Justinian
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 13:50 |
Originally posted by Genghis
My opinion is that people like English professors are liberal is because they're isolated from the real world and unlike technical specialists needn't worry about things like efficiency so long as there are intangible aspects which gratify them like "fairness" and "caring".
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Thats an interesting point that I for the most part agree with, engineering types work with math a lot where there is a right and wrong answer. You are less likely to think in the abstract. With those who study english there is no right and wrong answer, it is all opinion, therefore you think abstractly rather often. I don't know if they are isolated from the real world but they think about it in a much different way because of their profession.
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Justinian
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 14:01 |
Another important thing to consider is religion (what a suprise ). Intellectuals are for the most part not very religious. It seems the more you study humanities (generalizing) the less religious you become, I have noticed this happen to me. Religion is where you believe in something without solid proof. I can't remember how many times I have had this arguement with my mom. This is completely contradictory to those studying humanities, where you need solid proof for any credibility. The left is not religious whereas the right is, I would say therefore it is only logical for intellectuals (english professors, humanities etc.) to be leftist.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 14:32 |
Where does this idea that economists swing to the right come from? Not in my world, they don't.
Granted there are some right-wing economists, the majority it seems to me (and I'm an ex-economics lecturer myself) are to the left. $
Quite apart from Marx and Engels, Keynes and his whole school are socialist to social-democratic: I'm sure Joan Robinson would be horrified to see herself described as rightist.
Unfortunately the twaddle-purveyors like Friedman and Hayek get too much attention, and of course right-wing politicians dream up their own 'economic' doctrines (like 'trickle-down') to suit their political agendas. But I'm talking serious, empirical economists as well as the 'welfare economists' and the socialist ones.
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 14:42 |
The fact that somebody leans to the right or left makes them closed minded. This includes so called intellectuals. A real open minded person would not label them selves as liberal or conservative. |
You just gotta love how the Yankees who think that political spectrum consists of Conservatives and Liberals teach us how to be open minded.
I would say that it depends on who you talk to. Literature and Art professors and the like tend to go to the left, but the economics, engineering, and other such departments are more conservative. |
Even the most right wing academia is more left wing than the uneducated 'masses'. Furthermore, the elite in America, not only the academia, is overwhelmingly Liberal. This is a well known fact of politics.
I am in the academia, in a technical subject, and in my experience (in Europe), the technical departments are dominated by either socialists or liberals. Conservatives are hard to find. In Turkey there are more, but still, on average they are far more left wing than the 'masses'.
My opinion is that people like English professors are liberal is because they're isolated from the real world and unlike technical specialists needn't worry about things like efficiency so long as there are intangible aspects which gratify them like "fairness" and "caring". |
This argument is pathetic;
a. English proffessors are not 'isolated from the real world'. They don't live in the Matrix. If anyone is isolated, it is the technical people, because they tend to work harder. No wonder they get called nerds.
b. Isolation causes one to be right-wing, not left-wing. Otherwise, inbred farmers in American deep south would have been Communists.
c. Concern about efficiency does not make someone right-wing. On the contrary, it is an important factor which made me become left-wing: right now the world produces a food surplus, but almost a billion people are underfed, the amount of waste produced by the Westerners is appalling, etc. etc. Only market-worshippers would call this efficiency, engineers don't.
Edited by Beylerbeyi
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Cywr
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 16:26 |
Originally posted by Genghis
My mother once told me that one of her friend's daughters got a
degree in ancient Greek and basically works at a computer doing
data-entry, something that doesn't even require a degree. |
Thats preciesly the point, furthermore sometimes just having a degree
gets you to the front of the cue for a job, even if that degree has no
baring on the job itself.
All the more wierd within the context of a country with a socialised
)or semi-socialised) tertiary education sector, and even more sinister
again when the overwelming majority of university entrants are middle
class. Its like a subsidised leg up for the middle classes, meanwhile
there are shortages of workers with key skills because within the
existing quailification culture of the UK, they are not valued as much
(nor economicly, why study for 5 years to be a nurse, when three years
doing a comparitivly unchallenging humanities course will help you get
a job that pays better?).
Its not particulary efficient.
Anyways, i don't buy the educated = left voter link, one of the biggest
left-vote blocks in many countries are the working class, who typicly
don't have university degrees.
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Genghis
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 16:27 |
I meant isolated in the fact that they don't work in the market, but for the government in a job which would be very hard to get fired from. And isolation can cause someone to be rightist or leftist, it's just the fact that the more isolated you are the less you need to face reality and the more you can embrace an overarching ideology.
I'm right wing because I believe in efficiency. How often do you see shortages and massive lines in the West? And you talk of waste produced by the West, as if planned economies have done any better, look at the rusted factories of Mao's Great Leap Forward or read about the dozens of semi-drilled oil wells in Soviet Siberia. You point out that many in the world are starving, how many of those people live in economies that could properly be called liberal capitalist economies? Many live in countries that were formerly Marxist, like Mozambique, Mali, and Ethiopia.
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Genghis
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 16:33 |
Originally posted by Justinian
Originally posted by Genghis
My opinion is that people like English professors are liberal is because they're isolated from the real world and unlike technical specialists needn't worry about things like efficiency so long as there are intangible aspects which gratify them like "fairness" and "caring".
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Thats an interesting point that I for the most part agree with, engineering types work with math a lot where there is a right and wrong answer. You are less likely to think in the abstract. With those who study english there is no right and wrong answer, it is all opinion, therefore you think abstractly rather often. I don't know if they are isolated from the real world but they think about it in a much different way because of their profession.
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That's true, but there's also more to it. People like engineers and physicist most certainly do have to do abstract thinking, anything that complicated requires abstract thinking. A lot of their thinking is however goal-oriented as opposed to understanding oriented. An engineer is usually given a goal like "build a device that does this" and in the end will need to decide on one thing. Importantly, in their field there is one optimal conclusion, in a lot of the humanities, there isn't, there are just different interpretations and no one is better than the other.
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Loknar
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Posted: 25-Jan-2006 at 17:21 |
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
The fact that somebody leans to the right or left makes them closed minded. This includes so called intellectuals. A real open minded person would not label them selves as liberal or conservative. |
You just gotta love how the Yankees who think that political spectrum consists of Conservatives and Liberals teach us how to be open minded.
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You gotta love how blood thirsty Turks insult people instead of presenting a valid point.
In all seriousness, I'm really pissed off at this guy. Instead of actually stating some facts he chooses to call me a Yankee (how original).
Hey TURKEY (yeah the animal) when did I say there were only conservatives and liberals on the political spectrum? I chose to say liberal and conservative because I'm an american and that's what flys here.
Btw, who is that dude in your avatar?
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