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Favourite Period of Byzantine History

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Poll Question: Which do you like most?
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1 [1.56%]
14 [21.88%]
30 [46.88%]
8 [12.50%]
2 [3.13%]
9 [14.06%]
0 [0.00%]
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R_AK47 View Drop Down
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  Quote R_AK47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Favourite Period of Byzantine History
    Posted: 12-Feb-2006 at 23:03

I have two favorite periods.  They are:

476-640 - The reign of Justinian the Great occured during this time.  He expanded the borders of the empire, built the Hagia Sophia, and other accomplishments.

1071-1185 - The time of the 1st Crusade and the founding of the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

I don't like the 1261-1461 time period, because it was a time of defeat.

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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2006 at 23:16
Originally posted by R_AK47

I don't like the 1261-1461 time period, because it was a time of defeat.

I will have to admit, even I find the later period a bit depressing sometimes!

Believe it or not, there were some amazing military successes in the late period, especially by Michael VIII against the Latins in the Balkans.  Even as late as the 1430's, Constantine XI had some successes against the Latin lords in Thrace and on some of the Aegean islands. 

Despite all the military and political setbacks of this period, there was quite a cultural and artistic resurgence. 



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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Feb-2006 at 23:26

I agree about the late period being very depressing, there was so much inertia in the face of the threats Byzantium faced, so much vain longing for the past rather than adapting to the present, it's just some dreadful tragedy. Not that it is without its merits, of course. There is nothing on the scale of Plethon's work in earlier centuries and the period retains that fascinating element which continues throughout the whole of Byzantine history. The period redeems itself to a degree with the manner in which Constantinople resisted in 1453.

When I look at the Middle Byzantine period which I like so much I also see some shameful defeats. You need a strong stomoch to read of a near cultural collapse as the Empire transformed into a militant agricultural state early in this period. But reading on you see it is for the best, the Empire was simply adapting to a different world and doggedly fought it out to make a comeback. One can only wonder "what if" at the thought of strong leadership stepping up to take the helm after the death of Basil II. The Middle Byzantine Period built up such a strong foundation for the future strength of the Empire to build on.

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  Quote Digenis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2006 at 10:11
Well 640-1071 ? Very long period comparing th other classification.

950-1025 was for sure the apogee of Byzantine Power.

But i like also 1204-1261.
3 medieval greek states (Nicea,Epirus,Trebzon) each with its own identity,
vivid although small struggling to recover Constantinopolis.

Also in the same region,Bulgars very strong ,Serbians,several Crusader states of westerns,Venice and its naval power,the Turks.

A true mix of diferrent cultures,nations and warfare !
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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2006 at 13:58

 The last chapters of byzantine history I find almost to difficult to read, it seems terribly unfair that the likes of Manuel II a man with immense talent, should rule an empire already doomed.

 Honestly though, Byzantine history is full of such tragedies, Heraclius worked as hard as any Emperor ever had to keep the empire alive, only to live to see it collapse around him. The revival of the Comnemi offered hope of a new golden age, again only to see everything collapse all over again.

 Such is the tragedy and drama of the Byzantine empire, your hopes are risen one moment and dashed an instant later as the empire verges on annihilation all over again.

A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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  Quote Digenis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2006 at 15:09
Well Heraclius,u present it so desperately tragic! 

It was an empire that lived for 1000 years!!!!
It couldnt be always at the zenith of power!
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  Quote Evrenosgazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Feb-2006 at 11:12
In my opinion the best period was  the start of Phrygian dynasty to the death of Basil II ,and the the Komnenos period. In the first period roman empire start to break its chains against the Muslims.And regain its old soil. In the second period she showed a lot of vitality and stayed alive. But after the Komnenos period I think the Roman history becomes boring because of the Latin interception and slow Turkish advance
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  Quote Emperor John VI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2006 at 09:49

My favourite periods would being with Basil I and the Macedonian Dynasty till Basil II's death.  My favourite rulers during the period being Romanus I, Nicephorus II, John I, Basil II. 

The next period I love is that of the Comnenus, beginning with the Isaac I, although I detest the Ducas family after him. Then of course there are the 3 great Comnenian Emperors, my favourite being John II.  Although I like Manuel I too.

The final period I love is that of the Palaeologus. Beginning with the rise of Michael VIII, till John VI.  It's a pity the empire had to be ravaged by civil wars, hence destroying whatever hope it had of recovery. The 2 mentioned emperors during this period being my favourites.

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  Quote Emperor John VI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2006 at 10:06

Constantine XI, I believe that anyone who loves the Byzantine Empire would always wonder what if someone deserving took over from Basil II to put the money Basil had saved in the treasury to good use.  

Given the amount of military defeats the empire faced in the middle period, it is their good fortune they had the system of themes in place.  Though the culture may have nearly collapsed as you say, without the much needed strength that the focus on the military brought, the empire would not have been able to flourish later on during moments of peace.

I agree with Heraclius that the Byzantine Empire was filled with tragedy.  One can hardly blame Heraclius for dying a broken man after seeing all that he had worked for come to naught.  It is also tragic that Manuel II who is indeed talented inherit an empire that was too feeble to defend itself.

But such is life, few empires have endured and reinvented itself the way Byzantium has.

Digenis, have you read the epic Digenis Akritas?  I've been on a look out for it, maybe I shall order it soon one day.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 00:20
640-1081, for obvious reasons; largely because it was a period where Byzantium faced enemy after enemy, defeating one with them only to be replaced by another (The Persians to be replaced by the Arabs is the standard example), but the fact they overcame these odds - the fact they stood throughout this period and beyond as the bulwark of Europe against the Islamic hordes is perhaps the most cliched reason, but still one that deserves to be mentioned time and time again - simply because alternative history shows how different Europe would be if Constantinople would have fallen during it's second siege. The final period definately deserves mention as well, because the fall (so eloquently descirbed by Runciman) is just so tragic, but still retains that old Greco-Roman bravery that makes the hairs on your kneck stand on end. 
 
Obvious apologies if these reasons have been cited already.
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  Quote Desperado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2006 at 18:41
9 AD Augustus Caesar: "Quintili Vare, legiones redde!" ('Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!')
476-640: Justinian: "Velisarius, give me back my empire!"-and he almost succeded
Just kidding! But in this particular period the Byzantium had the greatest territory and military might. Something like USR(United States of Rome)
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2006 at 20:25
476-640. Justinian's reign is always fascianting, as well as of the saviour Heraclius. A dramatic time, with colossal victories and defeats, and so many great personalities that it reads like a novel.




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  Quote Peter III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 19:05
I have always liked the period between the fall of the Latin Empire and the fall of Byzantium, even though it was a time of terrible defeat for the empire.
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 15:30
Hmm I aspire to join the Byz Nut club too anyone knows any good books which to start with?
My favorite period is 640-1071. I find it fascinating how Belisarius managed to defeat so many barbarian invaders such as Vandals, Goths and almost succeeded in bringing back the old Roman territories. I think the Byzantine empire is a testment that nothing lasts forever even though one might struggle a hard as possible. The enjoyment lies in the struggle not the victory.


Edited by vulkan02 - 18-Aug-2006 at 15:35
The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 17:02
Originally posted by vulkan02

Hmm I aspire to join the Byz Nut club too anyone knows any good books which to start with?
My favorite period is 640-1071. I find it fascinating how Belisarius managed to defeat so many barbarian invaders such as Vandals, Goths and almost succeeded in bringing back the old Roman territories. I think the Byzantine empire is a testment that nothing lasts forever even though one might struggle a hard as possible. The enjoyment lies in the struggle not the victory.


I recommend John Julius Norwich's trilogy, Byzantine history divided into three sections which makes it much easier to manage. It is more of a popular history rather than an indepth scholarly source, but that is exactly what you want when you take your first steps into investigating this complex civilisation.
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 18:34
Oh yes, it's a good rule to always start with a popular history work, so one does not end up feeling puzzled by scholarly analyzes that often require considerable background knowledge.

Norwich's trilogy is great, I'm currently finishing the last volume myself. Entertaining, detailed and not without regard to source criticism, it has to be one of the best introductions to Byzantine history out there. If you think three books is a bit too much for an introduction, you can always read the one volume version, "A short history of Byzantium" by the same author.
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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 09:58
 What I continue to like about Norwich's trilogy is I can pick it up and just get into it without any effort, most of the time I spend my time trying to get my head around some impossibly complicated description of Byzantium by more *professional* historians.

 Norwich made it easy and actually readable, even had room for humour, i've yet to read anything on Byzantium that I have enjoyed more than Norwich's trilogy.
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 12:48
Thanks for the suggestion guys.
The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 14:31
Originally posted by vulkan02

Thanks for the suggestion guys.
 
 
There is also A.A. Vasiliev's "History of the Byzantine Empire" freely available on the net.
It's a bit antiquated, but still is a classic and gives a decent over-view on things. (If you wish, I can send you the whole book as a PDF file, it's easier to read that way.)
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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 15:14
Originally posted by vulkan02

Hmm I aspire to join the Byz Nut club too anyone knows any good books which to start with?
My favorite period is 640-1071.
 
Excellent!  The nutty Byzantine bunch will be glad to have you.  Tongue
 
Norwich is good as a general and literary introduction.  I agree with my esteemed colleagues' recommendation.
 
There are some good Byzantine history surveys that are not pompously academic and difficult to read.  These are:
 
George Ostrogorsky, History of the Byzantine State. trans. from the German by Joan Hussey. New Brusnwick: Rutgers University Press, 1969.
 
Warren Treadgold, A History of the Byzantine State and Society. Stanford University Press, 1997.
 
Vasiliev, as recommended by Komnenos
 
Guglielmo Cavallo, ed. The Byzantines. University of Chicago Press, 1997.
 
If you are interested in the Byzantine army, here are the best books out there on the subject:
 
Warren Treadgold, Byzantium and Its Army, 284-1081.  Stanford University Press, 1992.
 
Eric McGeer, Sowing the Dragon's Teeth: Byzantine Warfare in the Tenth Century. Washington, D.C.: Dumbarton Oaks, 1995.
 
John Haldon, Warfare, State and Society in the Byzantine World, 565-1204. London: UCL Press, 1999.
 
Mark C. Bartusis, The Late Byzantine Army: Arms and Society, 1204-1453. University of Pennsylvania Press, 1992.
 
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