Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Kevin
General
AE Editor
Joined: 27-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Alternate history? Posted: 01-Mar-2008 at 01:10 |
I have a question I want to pose?
Would you consider alternate history a field of serious historical study?
|
|
rider
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4664
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Mar-2008 at 19:18 |
I do.
|
|
Paul
General
AE Immoderator
Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 952
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Mar-2008 at 19:49 |
Aren't we living in alternate history now?
|
|
|
Aster Thrax Eupator
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 18-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1929
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Mar-2008 at 21:07 |
I think it is within the context of a larger event that actually happened. Speculation of events is crucial to many areas of history, where, for example, we can fill in some of Herodotus's various mishaps in his account of the battle of Salamis, but to go too far off the mark doesn't really make it academically viable. When one goes so far off the event which they are forging an alternate history for that it's unrecognizable, then it just gets stupid. I would use it as a tool rather than a stand-alone practice.
|
|
Kevin
General
AE Editor
Joined: 27-Apr-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Mar-2008 at 15:45 |
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator
I think it is within the context of a larger event that actually happened. Speculation of events is crucial to many areas of history, where, for example, we can fill in some of Herodotus's various mishaps in his account of the battle of Salamis, but to go too far off the mark doesn't really make it academically viable. When one goes so far off the event which they are forging an alternate history for that it's unrecognizable, then it just gets stupid. I would use it as a tool rather than a stand-alone practice.
|
That could be considered true as it helps us fill in blanks sort of speak. In addition to helping us understand alternatives and overall Alternate History is a good intellectual exercise.
|
|
JanusRook
Sultan
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2419
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Mar-2008 at 19:07 |
In order for alternate history to be a scholarly field one must not bring the alternate history too far. I'd say no more that one hundred years of guessing, because any more and their are just too many variables to get any recognizable history.
|
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
|
|
TheARRGH
Colonel
Over-Lord of the Marching Men
Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 744
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Mar-2008 at 00:48 |
Alternate history is merely the application of the lessons of real history to analyze and extrapolate possibilities based on known facts. Hence, It's a critical part of the process of History. History is useful: "Alternate history" is a practical application of it. It's no more lacking in analytical and intelligent process than an analysis of the possible implications of China's sudden expansion is.
In fact, one could think of considering various possible scenarios involving, e.g. climate change, Latin America's steady rise towards power, or the shortage of oil as simply Alternate-history exercises.
|
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche
|
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended
Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Mar-2008 at 13:59 |
What's important it seems to me is to retain the cause-and-effect chain, only restricting oneself to the probable direct results of the original postulated change. That requires considerable analysis of the actual, recorded, history of the period.
Arguments that simply say 'If this changed, then this might have too, because we don't know exactly what the results would be' are too common but fruitless (though they can lead sometimes to pleasing entertainments.
|
|
TheARRGH
Colonel
Over-Lord of the Marching Men
Joined: 29-Jun-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 744
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Mar-2008 at 01:27 |
Originally posted by gcle2003
What's important it seems to me is to retain the cause-and-effect chain, only restricting oneself to the probable direct results of the original postulated change. That requires considerable analysis of the actual, recorded, history of the period.
|
A good point. Alternate-history can be immensely interesting and useful (in some circumstances), but you're very correct that to have any real value, it has to have as much precision, reliable information, and thought put into it as possible.
|
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche
|
|
Maharbbal
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 08-Mar-2006
Location: Paris
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Mar-2008 at 17:04 |
Originally posted by TheARRGH
A good point. Alternate-history can be immensely interesting and useful (in some circumstances), but you're very correct that to have any real value, it has to have as much precision, reliable information, and thought put into it as possible.
|
I am not completely confident over what alternate-history is. I assume it is some thing like "what if Hannibal had conquered Rome?". I've seen several book going along those lines (from what if the Romans had discovered America to what if Hitler had won the war) and I can't say I am too interested by it. Still I've been taught in college (and I've used myself) something called counterfactual history. The principle is the following: two comparable regions were following a similar trend that can be measured. But one of these regions changed something in its system and after that followed a trend different from the one the other region followed. What would have been the trend followed by the region that changed had it not changed? This is basically used to estimate the impact of an event on a region society or economy. For instance, the rents in the Bronx and in Brooklyn were evolving at a similar pace until the Brooklyn bridge was constructed, as a result Brooklyn's rents hiked twice faster than the Bronx's. What has been the impact of the Brooklyn bridge on Brooklyn's rents? Lets consider that the bridge was never constructed, the rents would have go on at the same pace as in the Bronx and thus would be X% below what they actually turned up to be. Hence the impact of the Brooklyn bridge on Brooklyn's rents equals the real rents with the bridge minus the potential rents without the bridge. This method is interesting but very complicated because it means that you can account for all the consequences that the modifying events which is difficult at a micro-level and impossible at a macro-level.
|
I am a free donkey!
|
|
Caoimhe
Samurai
Joined: 09-Aug-2007
Location: Ireland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 102
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Mar-2008 at 20:00 |
Originally posted by Kevin
I have a question I want to pose?
Would you consider alternate history a field of serious historical study?
|
No, alternate history, as others have commented, is only interesting as a conceptual tool in order to sort out your own prejudices. For the most part they are FICTION.
|
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
|
|