World AD 600-700
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Category: General History
Forum Name: General World History
Forum Discription: All aspects of world history, especially topics that span across many regions or periods
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1458
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Topic: World AD 600-700
Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Subject: World AD 600-700
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 14:02
Hello everyone! I would like to have ANY information on this era,
including empires/kingdoms, rulers, calamities etc. etc. If you think
that there shouldn't be military info on this thread, just let me know,
and I'll make another thread on it's proper palce.
Thank you in advance!
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Replies:
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 15:09
Europe as we know was in the clutches of the Dark Ages. Arabia would be unified by the successors of Mohammed and this century would see their violent expansion across much of the modern Islamic World. The Byzantine Empire would lose control of Egypt and the Middle East to the Arab Muslims in the latter half of this century, but they would develop Greek fire. And China would reach a golden age under the glorious Tang dynasty.
------------- Member of IAEA
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Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 17:15
Originally posted by Genghis
Europe as we know was in the clutches of the Dark Ages. Arabia would be unified by the successors of Mohammed and this century would see their violent expansion across much of the modern Islamic World. The Byzantine Empire would lose control of Egypt and the Middle East to the Arab Muslims in the latter half of this century, but they would develop Greek fire. And China would reach a golden age under the glorious Tang dynasty. |
Or Europe had just emerged from the Dark Ages of Roman oppression and a variety of localised civilisations flourished across the continent.
------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back
http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk
http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk
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Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 18:02
Originally posted by Paul
Originally posted by Genghis
Europe as we know was in the clutches of the Dark Ages. Arabia would be unified by the successors of Mohammed and this century would see their violent expansion across much of the modern Islamic World. The Byzantine Empire would lose control of Egypt and the Middle East to the Arab Muslims in the latter half of this century, but they would develop Greek fire. And China would reach a golden age under the glorious Tang dynasty. |
Or Europe had just emerged from the Dark Ages of Roman oppression and a variety of localised civilisations flourished across the continent.
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Well, whatever floats your boat.
------------- Member of IAEA
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 18:33
This era has just passed over the Mesoamerican Classical age and Koreas many kingdoms are fighting it out with Chinese and Japanese interference. Certainly though Muslim expansion is he biggest thing that happens here.
------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Posted By: vagabond
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 20:43
And you want a short answer?
Could you narrow this down for us a bit - European History? Asian? Byzantine? Socio-political? Religious?
A short and very incomplete list would be:
Ca. 600
The Byzantines were losing control of most of western Europe - Justinian's Roman Empire is falling apart The Visigoths had an established their kingdom in Spain The Frankish Merovingians are fighting between themselves for control of Astrasia and Neustria The Lombards were establishing their kingdom in Northern Italy The Angles and Saxons are establishing control of Britain The Slavs are migrating into the Balkans
The Bulgars are making their presence known The Avar kingdom grows along the Danube
Pope Gregory was making sweeping changes in the structure and influence of the Roman church Many of these groups were not yet christianized - some were pagan - some were Arian Latinized Irish monks are establishing missions across Europe (St. Columba) Kohsrow I (the Just)- greatest of the Sassanid kings - has raised the level of Persian civilization and expanded it's borders The Japanese were ejected from their holdings in Korea The empress Suiko is ruling Japan through her son contact with China establishes Buddhism in Japan The Chinese emperor Yang Di is assassinated and the Tang dynasty is founded Nestorian Missionaries preach in China The city of Teotihuacan is at its peak Islam does not yet exist the Kok Turkish Empire covers much of central Asia - Turkic tribes are involved in events in China, Persia and eastern Europe
By Ca. 700
The Venerable Bede was recording English history The Anglo Saxon kingdoms had become Christian and controlled most of England Germany was becoming Christianized Charles Martel was about to become Frankish King The Byzantine Empire had been reduced to holdings in the Balkans, Anatolia and the Aegean Sea The Islamic Caliphate ruled from the Indus through Persia, Arabia, Syria, Egypt, North Africa and Spain Islam as already divided between the Shiite followers of Ali and the Sunni followers of Mu' awiyah The Koran was codified The Tang dynasty in China has taken large portions of central Asia and several of the Korean states Buddhism had become the national religion of Japan Both China and Japan were ruled by Empresses Porcelain had been invented
A few links to timelines that might help to get you started
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ - http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/
http://www.historylink101.com// - http://www.historylink101.com/\
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/splash.htm - http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/splash.htm
http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/worldciv/referenc/wrldtime.htm - http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/worldciv/referenc/wr ldtime.htm
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001196.html - http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001196.html
http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/ - http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/
------------- In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 20:54
Originally posted by vagabond
The Japanese were ejected from their holdings in Korea
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Argh I hate this!
First of all what defines Japanese in this time period. Second of all
you are no doubt referring to the Federation of Gaya which was a
sovereign state. This is a remanent of Japanese Imperial History that
was tailored to suit their needs. "Oh we're annexing Korea to get back
lost land." It is generally accepted now that Gaya and Wa were
good amigos with great trade connections and a military alliance with
Baekje. Nothing more.
Sorry if I sounded a bit angry there Vagabond...but I didn't think I
had to deal with this anymore...ugh...I can't believe this is still
around.
Gaya
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Gaya |
Korean Name |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Romanization_of_Korean" title="Revised Romanization of Korean - Revised
Romanization |
Gaya |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCune-Reischauer" title="McCune-Reischauer - McCune-Reischauer |
Kaya |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul" title="Hangul - Hangul |
가야 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanja" title="Hanja - Hanja |
加耶 or 伽倻 |
- This article is about the Gaya confederacy of ancient Korea. For other meanings of the term Gaya, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaya_%2%3Cimg%20border=" 0="" src="smileys/smiley16.gif" border="0">isambiguation%29" title="Gaya (disambiguation)">Gaya (disambiguation) .
Gaya (가야; 加耶, 伽耶, 伽倻, also known as
Garak (가락; 駕洛, 迦落, Gara (가라;
加羅, 伽羅, 迦羅, 柯羅,
Garyang(가량,加良, or Guya (구야, 狗耶 was a
confederacy of chiefdoms that existed in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms_of_Korea" title="Three Kingdoms of Korea - Three
Kingdoms era in ancient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea" title="Korea - Korea .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Korea" title="History of Korea - The History of Korea |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojoseon" title="Gojoseon - Gojoseon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samhan" title="Samhan - Samhan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms_of_Korea" title="Three Kingdoms of Korea - Three Kingdoms :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goguryeo" title="Goguryeo - Goguryeo , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baekje" title="Baekje - Baekje , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silla" title="Silla - Silla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Silla" title="Unified Silla - Unified Silla and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balhae" title="Balhae - Balhae
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Later_Three_Kingdoms_of_Korea" title="Later Three Kingdoms of Korea - Later Three Kingdoms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goryeo" title="Goryeo - Goryeo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseon_Dynasty" title="Joseon Dynasty - Joseon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Period_of_Japanese_Rule_%28Korea%29" title="Period of Japanese Rule (Korea) - Japanese occupation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea" title="Division of Korea - Divided Korea :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_North_Korea" title="History of North Korea - N. Korea , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_South_Korea" title="History of South Korea - S. Korea
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Gaya is thought to have arisen from a more ancient confederacy of chiefdoms called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byeonhan" title="Byeonhan - Byeonhan . The nature of the transition is not clear from historical sources. However, on the basis of
archeological sources as well as limited historical indications, scholars such as Cheol (2000) have identified the late http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_century" title="Third century - third century AD as a period of transition from Byeonhan to Gaya. At this time
records show increasing military activity and changed funerary customs. This would also coincide in part with the decline of the
Chinese http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commandry" title="Commandry - commanderies on the peninsula. Cheol (2000) further argues that this was
associated with the replacement of the previous elite in some principalities (including Daegaya) by elements from the Manchurian
kingdom of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuyu" title="Fuyu - Buyeo , who brought a more militaristic style of rule.
According to a legend recorded in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samguk_Yusa" title="Samguk Yusa - Samguk Yusa , in the year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42" title="42 - 42 , 6 eggs descended from the heaven with message that they would be kings. 6 eggs hatched and 6 boys
were born, and within 12 days they grew mature. One of them, named Suro (수로; 首露, became the king of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geumgwan_Gaya" title="Geumgwan Gaya - Geumgwan Gaya (금관 가야, and the other five
founded the other five Gayas, namely http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegaya" title="Daegaya - Daegaya (대가야, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Seongsan_Gaya&action=edit" class="new" title="Seongsan Gaya - Seongsan Gaya (성산
가야, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ara_Gaya" title="Ara Gaya - Ara Gaya (아라 가야, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goryeong_Gaya" title="Goryeong Gaya - Goryeong Gaya (고령 가야, and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Sogaya&action=edit" class="new" title="Sogaya - Sogaya (소가야.
Different records list different chiefdoms of Gaya. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Goryeo_Saryak&action=edit" class="new" title="Goryeo Saryak - Goryeo Saryak (고려사략; 高麗史略 lists
five; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geumgwan_Gaya" title="Geumgwan Gaya - Geumgwan Gaya , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goryeong_Gaya" title="Goryeong Gaya - Goryeong Gaya , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bihwa_Gaya" title="Bihwa Gaya - Bihwa Gaya , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ara_Gaya" title="Ara Gaya - Ara Gaya and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Seongsan_Gaya&action=edit" class="new" title="Seongsan Gaya - Seongsan Gaya .
Situated around the mouth of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakdong_River" title="Nakdong River - Nakdong River , an area with fertile
plains, access to the sea, and rich iron deposits, Gaya had an economy based on agriculture and fishing as well as trade. It was
particularly known for its ironworking, as Byeonhan had been before it. Gaya exported abundant quantities of iron armor and
weaponry to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baekje" title="Baekje - Baekje and the kingdom of Wa in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_period" title="Yamato period - Yamato period Japan. In contrast to the largely commercial and non-political ties of Byeonhan, Gaya seems to
have attempted to maintain strong political ties with these kingdoms as well.
The various Gaya mini-states formed a confederacy in the 2nd and 3rd centuries centred around http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geumgwan_Gaya" title="Geumgwan Gaya - Geumgwan Gaya in modern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimhae" title="Gimhae - Gimhae . After a period of decline,
the confederacy was revived around the turn of the 5th and 6th centuries, this time centred around http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegaya" title="Daegaya - Daegaya of modern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goryeong_County" title="Goryeong County - Goryeong , but it was unable to defend
itself for long against http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silla" title="Silla - Silla and Baekje. In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/562" title="562 - 562 ,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegaya" title="Daegaya - Daegaya , the last of the Gaya states, fell to Silla.
The nature of the relationship between the Japanese kingdom of Wa and the Gaya states has been a matter of extensive
controversy. Japanese scholars traditionally have argued, on the basis of various sources including the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonshoki" title="Nihonshoki - Nihonshoki , that Gaya was a colony or
tributary of Wa. Korean scholars have rejected this, on the basis of Korean
sources which make no mention of Japanese suzerainty. Today, most scholars regardless of nationality concede that the
relationship between Gaya and Wa was close, but not colonial.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2004 at 21:47
Basically, Europe is at its dark age, Persia is getting conquered, India is having a brief unison, the Turks were the dominant powers until overthrwon by the Chinese, by the middle of this period, China is the dominant political force of the world, dominating over half of the world's population.(both India and China recognized recognized the power of the emperor what can you expect?) It was probably even more powerful than the United States today.
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Posted By: vagabond
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 12:02
Kuu-ukko I hope that some of this helps
Gubukjanggoon - my goodness - you can read a lot into a single phrase. You have somehow interpreted a historical statement on the growth of the Silla kingdom as being a political commentary with Japanese Imperialistic overtones? That was not in any way my intent. One of the sources I consulted in trying to help Kuu-ukko said quite simply " ... the Korean kingdom of Silla rid itself of Japanese influence on the peninsula. The Japanese were now ejected from a coastal area which they had held .. " This is a simple statement of historical events that ocurred in the last half of the 6th c and was in no way intended to be a political statement.
The information on Gaya was very interesting, and quite informative - but well off topic - the question raised was about events that occurred around 600 - 700 AD. What modern societies have done to try and coopt these historical events to further their own political interests lies well beyond the scope of this thread. Please do not try to coopt this thread with the same intent.
Perhaps you can share with Kuu-ukko some things that did happen in that time period?
------------- In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 14:15
Originally posted by vagabond
And you want a short answer?
Could you narrow this down for us a bit - European History? Asian? Byzantine? Socio-political? Religious? |
No.
Sorry, but I'm interested in everything on the requested era, including the ones asked above.
This all has so far been very helpful and useful thank you !
PS. Does anyone know about the American and African cultures on this era?
Thank you.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 14:32
Chinese- very strong. they rule eastern asia. Tang dynasty is found.
Turks- very strong. they rule most of asia from the eastern sea in the east, to the volga river in the west. Turkish migrations to eastern europe, scandinavia and eastern persia begins.
Arabs- Ýslamic expansion begins, and they invade all middle east, noth africa, east africa, persia. some nations being converted to Ýslam.
Bzynthines-powerful but loses middle east to Muslim Arabs. they are dominant in meditarinnean
European nations-they are weak after the fall of roman empire. they became christians and cannot be organised.
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 17:34
You misunderstood me Vagabond my amigo. The statement says "The
Japanese were ejected from their holdings in Korea" This is
directly referring to the confederation of Gaya. History of that kingdom up till now has been
the same as during the time of WW2..which I so ferociouisly
described. Basically Japanese historians(up to very recently)
have been claiming that Gaya was a Japanese Colony. Recent
studies show that this in fact was not true. That theory has now
been virtually debunked.
The Japanese did not lose their holdings in Korea as they never had
any. That is my point...hope that makes it clearer? Here's the part of the article I wanted to Emphasize
The nature of the relationship between the Japanese kingdom of Wa and the Gaya states has been a matter of extensive
controversy. Japanese scholars traditionally have argued, on the basis of various sources including the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonshoki" title="Nihonshoki - Nihonshoki , that Gaya was a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony" title="Colony - colony or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tributary" title="Tributary - tributary of Wa. Korean scholars have rejected this, on the basis of Korean
sources which make no mention of Japanese suzerainty. Today, most scholars regardless of nationality concede that the
relationship between Gaya and Wa was close, but not colonial.
If it's not referring to Gaya could you tell me what holdings Japan actually lost?
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Posted By: Jalisco Lancer
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 17:42
Mesoamerica was on the Late Classic Period ( 600 AD - 900 AD ).
source: http://www.ukans.edu/~hoopes/506/Chronology.htm
Late Classic (AD 600 - 900) - The beginning of the Late Classic period is marked by major upheavals in central Mexico. Between AD 600 and 700, the center of Teotihuacan suffers from a dramatic decline, with repercussions throughout Mesoamerica. The city loses most of its population, either through warfare, disease, or abandonment. This is not an end to Teotihuacan's influence, which persists for several centuries through peoples descended from Teotihuacan lineages.
The period of the flourishing of Maya civilization in the Petén, Chiapas, western Honduras, and the Yucatán Peninsula. Populations of Maya centers like Tikal swell to almost 100,000 people, supported by intensive agricultural techniques that include raised fields and labor-intensive harvests. Maya architecture and artwork reach their highest expression, as evidenced by centers like Palenque, Yaxchilán, Copán, Dos Pilas, and Chichén Itzá. Maya vase painting becomes a fine art, with depictions of Maya royal life and scenes from mythology (such as the Popol Vuh). Pyramid/tombs are constructed to honor Maya ahaus, whose lives are filled with ceremonial activities centering on bloodletting rituals, calendric events, dynastic rites of succession, and warfare with lords of other Maya centers. Around AD 800, there is evidence for a dramatic increase in the frequency, prevalence, and scale of warfare, which takes its toll on the social landscape. By the end of the Late Classic period, the ceremonial cycle of stela carving and the dedication of buildings comes to an end at most of the centers in the Petén, probably as a result of increased warfare and environmental stress. However, ritual activity continues in the northern Yucatán Peninsula, especially at sites like Chichén Itzá and Uxmal.
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Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 17:56
States during this era:
Alupa 585-788.
Alwah 580-1504.
Anuradhapura 161bce-1017.
Asturias 718-910.
Axsum 250-950.
Bamiyan 560-870.
Bana c700-950.
Benevento 571-1077.
Bonampak 603-795.
Bulgaria 681-1014.
Byzantium 711-1204, Isaurian Dynasty 717-820.
Caliphate 642-945, Ummayad Dynasty 661-750.
Calukya Dynasty 543-757.
Caracol 553-859.
Cera c200bce-804.
Champa 192-1471.
Chenla - Land 705-950.
Chenla - Water 705-802.
China 589-1279, Tang Dynasty 618-907.
Chinkultik c600-810.
Cholula c700-1292.
Copan 160-832.
Daura c700-1805.
Dongola 675-1323.
Dvaravati 705-1030.
East Turks 553-744.
Francia 481-888, Merovingian Dynasty 481-750.
Ganga 250-1004.
Ghana 300-1240.
Gilan 651-761.
Gurjara 730-1019, Gurjara-Pratihara Dynasty c730-1019.
Gurjaratra c700-750.
Haripunjaya 650-1292.
Italy 476-774.
Japan 604-Present, Yamato Dynasty 604-Present.
Kalakmul 514-810.
Kalinga 498-1434.
Kanauj 550-786.
Kashmir 530-940.
Khazars 626-965.
Mataram 732-1743.
Mercia 653-877.
Naranjo 682-810.
Northumbria 697-865.
Odra 647-757.
Palenque 431-799.
Pallava Dynasty c250-910.
Pandya Dynasty 560-1323.
Parhae 696-926.
Pyu c500-832.
Quirigua c600-810.
Saindava 724-915.
Shahi 699-1021.
Silla 674-900.
Somvamsis c700-1028.
Songhai 500-1898.
Spoleto 570-756.
Srivijaya 682-1275.
Teotihuacan c100bce-c750.
Tibet c600-840.
Tikal 219-869.
Tiwanaku 500-1000.
Uaxactun 219-889.
Utkala 647-950.
Valabhi 550-775, Maukhari Dynasty c550-c775.
Vengi 642-769.
Wari c500-c800.
Yaxchilan c600-808.
Zabul 699-870.
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 18:25
That's a lot of nations.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 19:11
You forgot Frisia.
It was at its 'peak' during the 7th century. They even conquered Utrecht
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 20:31
"Turks- very strong. they rule most of asia from the eastern sea in the east, to the volga river in the west. Turkish migrations to eastern europe, scandinavia and eastern persia begins."
Thats the 6th century not the 7th.
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Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 21:37
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big0600.htm - http://www.euratlas.com/big/big0600.htm
------------- Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08-Dec-2004 at 13:21
Yes, you are right. But the Göktürks still exist powerfully from the eastern sea to the caspian sea.
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 08-Dec-2004 at 19:37
Couldn't find a map of the world in 600-700...but I got pretty close
From http://www.worldhistorymaps.com
World in 586 A.D.
http://www.worldhistorymaps.com/maps/WA0586.htm
World in 736 A.D.
http://www.worldhistorymaps.com/maps/WA0736.htm
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 08-Dec-2004 at 23:20
"Yes, you are right. But the Göktürks still exist powerfully from the eastern sea to the caspian sea."
If its the seventh century then they didn't. In fact they are not even one empire.
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Posted By: Berosus
Date Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 22:27
I seem to be the one at AE who has to fill in the gaps in African and Southeast Asian history.
North Africa was an important part of the Byzantine Empire in the early
seventh century, just as it was for the Roman Empire. After 641,
however, it was conquered by the Arabs.
Below the Sahara Desert, the only important kingdom was Axum, in modern
Ethiopia. Three minor Christian states existed in Nubia
(Sudan): Nobatia, Makuria and Alodia. West Africa had some
advanced tribes in Nigeria (at Nok) and Mali (at Jenne-Jeno) that knew
how to forge iron, but the first true West African kingdom, Ghana, was
just getting started. Madagascar has just recently been settled
by a group of Indonesians, and the Bantus have nearly completed their
expansion into central and southern Africa.
In Southeast Asia the most important states were Chenla, in Cambodia
and Laos, and Srivijaya in western Indonesia. Myanmar was divided
into three states: Pyu, Pegu and Arakan. Several minor
states, populated by Mons (cousins of the Cambodians), existed in
Thailand; the Thais themselves had a kingdom called Nanzhao, in China's
Yunnan province. The Vietnamese lived in only the northern third
of modern Vietnam, and were currently under Chinese rule. Central
Vietnam had a kingdom named Champa, whose inhabitants were related to
the Malays, and southern Vietnam was considered part of Cambodia until
about 1700.
Others have already stated that the three civilizations that did the
best in the seventh century were the Arabs, the Chinese, and the
Mayans. To that I would like to add these things:
1. The Arabs succeeded because the Byzantines and Persians
exhausted themselves in their longest and costliest war (603-628),
while Mohammed was establishing Islam in Arabia.
2. In Russia, the Khazars were also doing well in the seventh
century, though I don't think they had converted to Judaism yet.
3. In western Europe, this was the worst part of the Dark Ages,
and the most advanced western European country at this time was
Ireland, believe it or not!
4. I haven't heard anyone say much about South America.
This was a good time for the Moche, my favorite South American culture.
------------- Nothing truly great is achieved through moderation.--Prof. M.A.R. Barker
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 11:51
"West Africa had some advanced tribes in Nigeria (at Nok) and Mali (at Jenne-Jeno) that knew how to forge iron, "
The tribes were called Mundingo opposed to Mali which was the kingdom found by Sundiata in 1235 a.d.
"Several minor states, populated by Mons (cousins of the Cambodians), existed in Thailand; the Thais themselves had a kingdom called Nanzhao, in China's Yunnan province. "
New research tesify to that theory, Nan Zhao is most likely a kingdom of the Bai and Miao ethnic groups and only a small amount of Thais. Second the kingdom of Nan zhao did not exist during the 7th century, it was divided into 6 zhao and some other kingdoms under the supervision of the Tang. Only in 737 was their territory united by Men Shu Zhao and created the kingdom of Nan Zhao.
"Others have already stated that the three civilizations that did the best in the seventh century were the Arabs, the Chinese, and the Mayans. To that I would like to add these things:"
Mayas? How serious are you, you forgot the Indian empire of Harsha and the Tibetan empire of Yarlung. Even the declining Byzantium and Korean states have a greater advance and political power than the Maya city states.
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Posted By: Jalisco Lancer
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 12:48
Probably, but the Mayas are better remembered
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 15:11
By the people of America perhaps but not the world.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 15:27
Originally posted by warhead
"Yes, you are right. But the Göktürks still exist powerfully from the eastern sea to the caspian sea."
If its the seventh century then they didn't. In fact they are not even one empire.
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The II. Göktürk Empire was still a significant world power in the 7. century.
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 16:05
But they did not extent to the Caspian sea.
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Posted By: Jalisco Lancer
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 17:06
Originally posted by warhead
By the people of America perhaps but not the world. |
sure ? well, I bet you that most of the people ( world wide ) wants to see a mayan site right next to the blue caribean shores than any other place
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Posted By: Ptolemy
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 18:04
North Africa was an important part of the Byzantine Empire in the early seventh century, just as it was for the Roman Empire. After 641, however, it was conquered by the Arabs. |
I'm not confident about this, but didn't the Romans control Carthage until the 8th century?
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Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 20:03
Hmm, no, the Vandals/Visgoths (can't renember which) took it from them.
------------- Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Dawn
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 23:09
if IIRC it was one then the other depending on the time frame.
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Posted By: vagabond
Date Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 01:25
The Vandal king Gaiseric took Carthage in the 5th century (439). It was retaken by the Byzantines under Belisarius in the 6th century (533). In 647 the Caliphate launched its first campaign against Carthage - the city was taken in 683 - by 698 the entire Exarchate of Africa had been taken.
------------- In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 02:25
II. Göktürk Khanate ( 682-745 )- The first empire was divided into eastern and western khanates in 576. The eastern khanate was invaded by china but the western khanate remained independent. In 682, the eastern khanate became independent again and they ruled the old Göktürk lands again...
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Posted By: Berosus
Date Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 09:04
Originally posted by warhead
New research tesify to that theory, Nan Zhao is most likely a kingdom
of the Bai and Miao ethnic groups and only a small amount of Thais.
Second the kingdom of Nan zhao did not exist during the 7th century, it
was divided into 6 zhao and some other kingdoms under the supervision
of the Tang. Only in 737 was their territory united by Men Shu Zhao and
created the kingdom of Nan Zhao. |
You're right about the 737 origin, I jumped the gun there. As to
the kingdom being mostly made up of non-Thais, that was normal for a
long time. The early Thai chiefs had a policy of encouraging
their second sons to go forth and conquer a territory for themselves,
rather than divide the family inheritance. Thus, they migrated at
least once every generation, and when they succeeded in gaining new
land, they absorbed/enslaved the previous inhabitants, instead of
killing or driving them away. As a result, the Thais were usually
a minority in their own country, as late as 1350 A.D.
Sorry about forgetting Tibet. I didn't mention Harsha because he
only affected the northern half of India, and died before the seventh
century was half over.
------------- Nothing truly great is achieved through moderation.--Prof. M.A.R. Barker
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 00:42
"II. Göktürk Khanate ( 682-745 )- The first empire was divided into eastern and western khanates in 576. The eastern khanate was invaded by china but the western khanate remained independent. In 682, the eastern khanate became independent again and they ruled the old Göktürk lands again..."
Completely erroneous map, The 2nd Turuk empire never occupied territory beyond Tashkent, and it never had the Tarim basin.
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Posted By: Jazz
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 00:08
In my opinion, a vastly underrated event occured in 602.
It was the mutiny of the Roman army against Mauriakos, the Emperor in
Constantinople. He had alienated his army by ordering them to
winter on the north side of the Danube during his "forward defense" of
the Balkan frontier against the Avar Khan....it started a series of
events that have to this day far-reaching consequences..
The immediate consequences were:
- First of all, the army marched on Constantinople and assasinated
the emperor along with with most of his family, and an illiterate
usurper, Phokas was chosen by the army to assume the throne.
- Secondly, it allowed the Avar Khan to resume the raids across the Danube on Roman territory in the Balkans
- Thirdly, the breakdown of the Danuban frontier system allowed the
Slavs to migrate from the Danube all the way down to the Peloponnese on
southern Greece. Within a few years the entire Balkan peninsular
(bar the coastal towns) was lost to Empire (and the Danube fronteir was
not to be restored until early in the 11th century)
- Fourthly, as Emperor Mauriakos helped the Sassanian (Persian)
Shah Chosroes II in a Persian civil war in the early 590s, Chosroes
took to the field in the Mesopotamia, ostensibly to avenge his late
benefacotor. This lead to a long an useless war (from 602-629)
between the 2 superpowers in which when everything was said and done,
there was no change to any fronteir by the end of the war in 629 (All
this when you include the Persian conquests of Roman Mesopotamia,
Syria, Palestine, Egypt, and Anatolia, and including a joint
Persian-Avar-Slav attack on Constantinople on 626). The end of
the war led to both empire being completely exhausted and unable to
cope when armies of Islam swept out of Arabia after 634.
The world might be vastly different today had both empires been able to
meet the Arab onslaught at full strength, for example Zoroastrianism
might still be a major religion today. How would the Slavs who
settled south of the Danube look today had they been thouroughly
Hellenized within Roman society etc etc..
But then History is full of "what-ifs"......
------------- http://www.forums.internationalhockey.net/index.php?/index.php?referrerid=8 - International Hockey Forums
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Posted By: Thracian
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 01:45
To me this time is very important. Bulgaria was crated as the 2nd, I think, in eu. at the time and fist Slavic nation . Only it was created by Bulgars who also around this time made another nation around the Volga river (the entire race was split into groups)
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Posted By: coolstorm
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 02:04
This map is wrong. During the 7th century, much part of the silk road in central asia was controlled by the Tang dynasty. Manchuria, Inner Mongolia were also under Tang. This map shows that the Turk's territories were south of part of the great wall close to the Tang capital Chang'An (the largest city of the world with 40 miles city wall and 2 million residents). I am sorry to say this but it is ridiculous. The Tang was one of the most powerful and glorious Chinese dynasties especially during the 7th century. At least 1/3 of the land in orange was controlled by the Tang in the 7th century.
"
The Tang Dynasty, which maintained its rule nearly 300 years, is probably the most well-known dynasty in Chinese history. Successively witnessing three florescences, namely "the Prosperity of Zhenguan", http://www.warriortours.com/intro/history/tang/wuzetian.htm - the reign of Emperor Wu and "the Heyday of Kaiyuan" in its period, Tang Empire justifiably became the largest, richest, most sophisticated state in the world at that time. Greatly and widely admired abroad, the Tang influence spread into Asia, Europe and Africa. Neighbouring countries sought and established ties with the empire and Chang'an became the center of cultural exchange between the East and the West. "
http://www.warriortours.com/intro/history/tang/ - http://www.warriortours.com/intro/history/tang/
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 11:00
This map shows the largest extent of Göktürk Empire in 6. century. My purpose was to show the borderlands of western Göktürk Empire in this map.
http://www.allempires.com/empires/gokturk1/gokturk1.htm - http://www.allempires.com/empires/gokturk1/gokturk1.htm
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 14:32
We are talking about 600-700 a.d. not the 6th century.
And I already said, that map is wrong. Southern Manchuria is under Koguryo and later Bo Hai kingdoms. The Amur is inhabited by the black water Mohe which was never brought under control by the Tujue.
As for the Western empire, after Tardu became independent of the East, he invaded the Sui and died on the borders, his sucessors was instruggling for the throne and and the western empire broke up and parts of it submitted to Sui, they were able to regroup but never extended their domain beyond the Aral Sea. That kingdom again broke up in 630 not to be reunited until 642. But that unification was short lived, after the Tang defeated them in that year the various tribes revolted and slowly submitted until Su Ding Fang put an end to that kingdom in 657.
In another word, there was no united Gokturk kingdom in the 7th-8th century, Mo Cho was able to restore much of the empire, but only between 711-714 when the disastrous defeat in Bei Ting ended the western prestige, nor di dthe second Tujue empire eve restablish its power over kashgaria.
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Posted By: coolstorm
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2005 at 22:21
The silk road map's background is, however, han dynasty. but the silk road was pretty much the same during the tang dynasty as well.
"
Military Power
The Sui had instituted an army of professional soldiers known as Fubing, a basis for a standing army that was adopted by the Tang. Military service was rotated between defence of the national frontiers and duty in the capital. Using this army together with auxiliaries recruited from minorities the Tang rulers pushed back would be invaders and so extended their territorial control beyond China proper. At its peak of power, the Tang controlled large parts of central Asia all the way into Iran as well as Manchuria, most of the Korean peninsula and into the Ili Valley. The Tang became the greatest power in Asia.
Social Economy
Agriculture
Upon reunification of the country, agriculture made a gradual recovery. Large areas of wasteland were brought under cultivation and paddy fields laid out for the planting of rice. In the southern provinces, rice planting was organized so that a double harvest could be achieved. In the northern provinces a system for triple harvests was set up. Sorghum and buckwheat were grown in the Yellow River Valley.
Much attention was given to the matter of irrigation. During the first one hundred and thirty years of their rule, the Tang constructed some 170 water conservancy schemes. New mechanical systems such as waterwheels were introduced to raise water to higher levels thereby increasing efficiency and making it possible to bring yet more land into use.
The increased agricultural output facilitated population growth and during the reign of Emperor Xuanzong, the population reached a peak of over 50 millions.
Land Policy and Tax System
Land distribution formed an important part of Tang agricultural reform and economic development. In the early years of the dynasty, a triennial nation wide census was taken and all inhabitants registered. This was to ensure a sustainable level of tax revenue to the state. In 624, using the census as a basis, the Tang governors reintroduced the land equalization system of earlier times. In this way it was possible to ensure that all families had sufficient land to be self-sufficient and be able to pay taxes.
The tax system was then adjusted and two important reforms introduced.
Zuyongdiao System
Under this system, although tax was raised from landowners, it took the form of a poll tax and was levied on the number of people in a family rather than on the acreage owned. Each person was responsible for three kinds of tax: in grain (Zu), in textiles or other materials (Diao) and in corvee labour or military service (Yong).
After a period of time, this proved unworkable as vast areas of land were owned by merchants, officials, monasteries and others who were not of the peasant classes. The amount of land available for distribution decreased as more was acquired by legitimate means by the aristocracy and members of the imperial clan. These great estates and the tax free land holdings of the Buddhist monasteries failed to render tax, as did the land endowments held by the counties and prefectures. The majority of the peasantry became tenants rather than landowners with a consequent diminution of government revenues.
Double Tax System
In 780 Yangyan, the then Zaixiang (prime minister), advocated a new tax regime. This provided for tax collection twice a year, in summer and autumn, hence the title Double Tax System. This varied from the Zuyongdiao System inasmuch as it was based on the size of the land owned (land tax) and the amount of the harvest (income tax).
To a certain extent the Double Tax System rectified the inequality of the level of taxes imposed on the rich and poor while increasing the revenues of the central government.
Commerce and Manufacturing
Manufacturing
Manufacture was undertaken in both state owned and privately owned workshops. Mostly located in larger cities, the crafts included brocade weaving, papermaking, iron smelting, casting, pottery making and others.
The textile industry prospered. The silk products from Songzhou (now Shangqiu City in Henan Province) and Bozhou (now Bo County in Anhui Province) were most renowned for their high quality. In the south areas of the country, many silk products were listed as tributes. Advances were also made in the production of cotton goods. Cotton was widely grown in Turpan, Yunnan, Guangdong, Guangxi and Fujian provinces. In addition, there were very obvious improvements in painting and dyeing technology.
Marked improvements were introduced in the manufacture of pottery and porcelain. The porcelain from the Xingzhou kiln (in Hebei Province) was particularly noted for its quality and described as 'white as silver and snow'. The white and green porcelain produced in Jingdezhen in Jiangxi Province won itself the nickname 'emulous jade ware'. In southern China, the Yuezhou kiln (in Zhejiang Province) made its mark by producing celadon characterized by its elegance, lightness and strength. Tang Tricolor Porcelain, decorated with yellow, green, white, brown and blue, became famous for the beauty of its designs and the pieces were acknowledged as fine works of art.
Commerce
The rapid growth of both agriculture and manufacturing industry enabled commerce to flourish and created the need for an improved transport system.
So as to speed the transport of grain from the rich area around the http://www.warriortours.com/river/yangtze_river.htm - Yangtze River to the north of the country, the http://www.warriortours.com/cityguides/hangzhou/grand_canal.htm - Grand Canal was extended. Yilu (post roads) were opened running through the country and stimulating trade. The famous http://www.warriortours.com/silkroad/history.htm - Silk Road enabled trade to flourish between China, central Asia and Arabia. After the Rebellion of An and Shi, the Silk Road by sea blossomed. Merchant ships from countries in Asia and Africa flooded in with cargos of spices, medicines and jewellery to be exchanged for Chinese silks and porcelain.
The capital, Chang'an, became the richest and most populous city in the world. It had one million inhabitants, including people from other minorities and countries. Fortified with a wall and moat, the city was divided into quarters including two markets full of shops and stores. These included more than two hundred types of businesses dealing in a wide variety of goods from home and abroad."
http://www.warriortours.com/intro/history/tang/page2.htm - http://www.warriortours.com/intro/history/tang/page2.htm
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Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 03:42
i found these maps for the world in year 700 AD
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 19:59
Originally posted by coolstorm
Military Power
At its
peak of power, the Tang controlled large parts of central Asia all the
way into Iran as well as Manchuria, most of the Korean peninsula and
into the Ili Valley. The Tang became the greatest power in Asia. |
Bleh I hate that map. Just clumping Goguryeo, Baekje, and Shilla together and labeling it "tributary" just boils my beans.
Good thing Shilla and Barhae pushed Tang out of our lands.
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Posted By: coolstorm
Date Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 22:50
Good thing Shilla and Barhae pushed Tang out of our lands.
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not really. the tang didn't withdraw until the 8th century.
and it withdrew not because of the resistance in korea but because of an lushan rebellion in china proper. if there hadn't been an an lushan rebellion, the tang wouldn't have withdrawn from korea.
do u think korea could be independent from japan if the us hadn't joined ww2? it's the same thing.
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Posted By: Omnipotence
Date Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 23:48
That stinking territory that connects turkestan with the rest had always bothered me...
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 01:05
Originally posted by coolstorm
Good thing Shilla and Barhae pushed Tang out of our lands.
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not really. the tang didn't withdraw until the 8th century.
and it withdrew not because of the resistance in korea but because
of an lushan rebellion in china proper. if there hadn't been an an
lushan rebellion, the tang wouldn't have withdrawn from korea.
do u think korea could be independent from japan if the us hadn't joined ww2? it's the same thing. |
Sure sure, but if we didn't fight Tang wouldn't have left right?
No matter what crap was happening elsewhere Barhae and Shilla fought
while Tang left. That's all that really matters to me...did I
hear a "Man Sae"?
Shilla expelled Tang in the 7th century, although Barhae accomplished this only by the 8th...
And what does that last part have to do with it?
Originally posted by Omnipotence
That stinking territory that connects turkestan with the rest had always bothered me...
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Me too..it seems so prone to attack...
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 03:13
oh yeah that thing always bothered me to, like the thin strand of flesh that connects the two..nevermind.
------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Posted By: coolstorm
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 11:56
Originally posted by Tobodai
oh yeah that thing always bothered me to, like the thin strand of flesh that connects the two..nevermind. |
that's due to geographical factors. it is called hei sai horridor, which literally means river west horridor. it's surrounded by mountains.
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 16:19
These Tang dynasty maps are drawn from shallow sources, to be a bit more detailed, the maps below are drawn from professional Chinese historians under the national historical archive.
http://photos.bravenet.com/131/237/194/0/6D3855B886.jpg - http://photos.bravenet.com/131/237/194/0/6D3855B886.jpg 669 A.D.
This include all the prefectures and protectorates but not the vassals of Tu Yu Hun of Kokonor and Mohe of Northeasthern Manchuria which is controlled by Tang. Some time error is also present but its by far the most accurate map of Tang at its greatest extent.
http://photos.bravenet.com/131/237/194/0/8B96EFF743.jpg - http://photos.bravenet.com/131/237/194/0/8B96EFF743.jpg 741 A.D.
Notice that BoHai is again made into a prefecture although remained an independent administration. While the Amur river under the Mohe is also made into a prefecture. Its also doubtful that the territory north of the Amur river is under any effective control.
Here is a list of major Tang protectorates of the west:
In Chinese history the territories of present Day Russian Turkestan is called ÕÑÎä¾Å¹ú or Nine kingdoms of Zhao Wu.
These nine kingdoms are ¿µ¹ú£¨Samarqand £©¡¢°²¹ú£¨Boukhara£©¡¢ ʯ¹ú£¨Chach £©¡¢Ê·¹ú£¨Kesh£©¡¢²Ü¹ú£¨Khebud£©¡¢ºÎ¹ú£¨Koshana £©¡¢Ã×¹ú £¨Maimargh£©¡¢ @£¨Khwaresm£©¡¢ÊùµØ£¨Betik £©
1. Tashkent. Also known as Shi Guo ʯ¹ú(rock kingdom) in Chinese was made into the Da Wan prefecture(du du fu) in 658 A.D.
2. Samarkand, called Kang Guo ¿µ¹ú was made into Kang Gu Du Du Fu
3. Maimargh, known as Mi Guo Ã×¹ú, or rice kingdom was made into Li Nan prefecture
4. Koshana, known as He Guo ºÎ¹ú was made into Xiang Zhou in 641 A.D.
5. Bukhara also known as An Guo °²¹ú was made into An Xi Zhou
In addition, beyond the nine kingdoms of Zhao Wu there was
1. Zhi Ba Zhou prefectureÖÁ°ÎÖݶ¼¶½¸®, in present day in Tajikistan.
2. Tien Ma Du Du Fu ÌìÂí¶¼¶½¸® also in Tajikistan.
3. Ban Zhou Du Du Fu ÔðàÖݶ¼¶½¸® in Uzbekistan
4. Gao Fu Zhou Du du Fu¸ß¸½Öݶ¼¶½¸® also known as Ferghana.
5. Wang Tin Zhou prefecture ÍõÍ¥Öݶ¼¶½¸® southwest Tajikistan
6. Gu Mo Du prefecture ¹ÃÄ«Öݶ¼¶½¸® in Uzbekistan
7. Yue Zhi prefecture ÔÂÊ϶¼¶½¸® in Northern Afghanistan
8. Da Han(great Khan) prefecture ´óº¹¶¼¶½¸®
9. Qi Sha Zhou prefecture ÆæɳÖݶ¼¶½¸®£ºnorthwestern Afghanistan
10. À¥ÐæÖݶ¼¶½¸®£ºÔÚÍÁ¿âÂü¶«ÄϵÄľ¶ú¼ÓºÓÒ»´ø¡£
11. Xiu Xian prefecture ÐÞÏʶ¼¶½¸® in present day Kabul, capital of Afghanistan.
12. Xie Feng prefecture д·ï¶¼¶½¸® in central Afghanistan
13. Tiao Zhi prefecture, ÌõÖ§¶¼¶½¸® southern Afghanistan
14. Persian prefecture ²¨Ë¹¶¼¶½¸®, its not in Iran but in Turkmenistan, because the Sassanian kingdom is destroyed by the Arabs, the last prince, Peroz escaped to Tang and was enfeoffed this territory as king of the new Sassanid Persia. Although this kingdom was abandoned in the 674 from new arab agrression. Tang army escorted Peroz back in 679 a.d.
In the fourth year of Zheng Guan(630) after the Tang destroyed the Eastern Tu Jue empire, all tribes south of the Gobi up to the old Turkish capital of Otugen was subjugated. This territory was divided into two prefectures in the east and west and all the tribes is subdivided into 20 zhou. Those north of the Gobi belonged to the tiele confederation led by the Xue Yang Tuo tribes although they submitted to the Tang as early as as the 2nd year of Zheng Guan(627) they were independent. In the 20th year of Zheng Guan (646), the Xue Yang Tuo invaded Tang territory taking advantage of the Korean campaign with a recorded number of 200,000 troops. The north was lightly defended, but never the less, the Xue Yang Tuo was crushed by Li Si Qi's border army consisting of 60,000 Tang troop and 5000 TuJue auxiliar. The Xue Yang Tuo retreated north but faced a blizzard that took away 9/10 of their troop, following this disaster the Uighur rebelled, and asked for Tang aid. In the following year, the Tang army crossed the Gobi and joined the Uighurs and overthrew the Xue Yang Tuo. The north of the Gobi up to lake baikal now became part of the Tang territory as well. In that year Tai Zong set up the An Bei(pacified north) Du Hu Fu(protectorate) north of the Gobi and rezoned the Tie Le(including Uighurs) into 6 Du du fu and 7 prefectures. Later that year, he set up the Yen Lang Du Hu Fu(protectorate) up to the Angara river north east of Lake Baikal,(in 663 it will be moved back into Uighur territory) this marks the furthest northern extent of Tang. In 663, the Chang Yu Du Hu Fu is set up for the tribes south of Gobi. In 679, Chang Yu protectorate would rebel but crushed. Yet in 682, the Tu Jue rebels in north of the Gobi and Tang withdrew from An Bei, Chang Yu and the An Bei(Pacified North)protectorate became one and would remain until the end of Wu Zho's reign. In the west, the Western Tujue during the reign of She Gui Kaghan, their territory streched from Jade gate in the east to the Aral sea in the west, while the south covered present day northern Afghanistan. In the 14th year of Zheng guan (640) Tang occupied the kingdom of Gao Cang(present day Turfan)and created the An Xi(pacified west) protectorate. Slowly, it occupied, the rest of the Tarim and tribes of the Western Tujue, in 658 the rest of the Tujue khanate was occupied. The whole of the western Tujue khanate was zoned into protectorates. From Tien Mountain to the Aral Sea, the territory is zoned into Kung ling and Meng Chi protectorate and subdivided into over a dozen Du du fu and zhou. All these protectorate are under the supervision of the protector general of the An Xi protectorate. In 661, Tang further zoned the territories south of the Oxus and the 16 kingdoms of the tarim basin reaching the border of Persia. This was the height of Tang's eastern expansion. One of the protectorate of the Pacified West was ruled by the last prince of Persia, Peroz who escaped in 651 for the Tang after the arabs destroyed the Sassanid empire. He will keep on fighting the Arabs until the 670s when he is again forced to leave by invading arabs and go back to China. While in 665, the western turkish tribes rebelled and in 670, Tubo(tibet) attacked the Tarim and Tang retreated back to Turfan, but the protectorate of Kung ling and Meng Chi was still loyal to Tang until forced by arabs and later Tujue to abandon their territory. In the North East, in 627, Kitan of Manchuria submit to Tang, and in 648, Tang set created Song Mo protectorate over the kitans. While created the Yao Le protectorate over the Xi tribes. In 692, Tang also created the Wei Shi protectorate over the Wei Shi nomads in Northern Manchuria. All of them was under the supervision of the An Dong(Pacified East). In 660 Tang destroys kingdom of Paikche and in 668 destroys Koguryo, set up Gao Li protectorate and BoHai prefecture. These would become independent in 698 and Kitans will rebel in 696 but resubmit to Tang in 714 and rezoned their teritory to Tang protectorate. While the South isn't much of a change but in 679 Tang set up An Nan (Pacified South over NanZhao and Vietnam.) In Nan Zhao, Tang defeated the Zheng river tribes and the 6 Zhao was zoned into numerous prefectures. During its height Tang had over 800 small Zhou prefectures and 1500 Jun within the empire itself.
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 16:21
well for some reason the maps don't show when clicked, but just type it into net search and the map would show.
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 18:50
Bleh that prefecture crap..I don't like that school of thought either..but that's just me...
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 20:06
?????
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 20:08
Originally posted by warhead
????? |
As in Bohai being Tang's prefecture.
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 20:21
oh that, its really just a feudal title. Something like how the Brits give some Rajput in India independence but recognize the crown's soverignty. But in this case its more like the enfeofement of a lord in feudal times.
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 20:22
Originally posted by warhead
oh that, its really just a feudal title. Something like
how the Brits give some Rajput in India independence but recognize the
crown's soverignty. But in this case its more like the enfeofement of a
lord in feudal times. |
Yea..that's what gets me..
Everyone had these..China gave them out to Shilla, Japan, anyone really..
And yet, it's only Bohai who's a part of the map...
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 20:32
Well, Japan received titles as a king. (ironically thats where the name Japan came from when they were enfeoffed king of the RiBen in 670, the first use of that name surprisingly came from Korean source). But only BoHai was made into prefectures.
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 20:55
Originally posted by warhead
Well, Japan received titles as a king. (ironically thats
where the name Japan came from when they were enfeoffed king of the
RiBen in 670, the first use of that name surprisingly came
from Korean source). But only BoHai was made into prefectures. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohai
Hmm..according to Wiki, it was changed to "State King of Bohai" in 762
CE...I guess the map is referring to the period before this yea?..
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 21:00
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 21:02
About that little strip of land connecting China proper with
Xinjiang..so it was protected by mountains? Did Tang ever try to
widen it?
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 21:12
Do you mean the gansu corridor?
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 21:30
Originally posted by warhead
Do you mean the gansu corridor? |
I guess..that little piece of land...
On that horrid little map that coolstorm provided it says Longyu.
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Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 21:42
Yes as you can see, the Gansu Corridor into the Tarim Basin is surrounded by Mountains.
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Posted By: Bekka
Date Posted: 01-Dec-2012 at 12:21
Turks (nomads) gave a trousers to european people. Turks ruled big part of eurasia. The Göktürks were the first Turkic people known to write their language.
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