"Axis of Evil" is Based on Reality
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Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Intellectual discussions
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URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2221
Printed Date: 02-Jun-2024 at 05:06
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Topic: "Axis of Evil" is Based on Reality
Posted By: Scytho-Sarmatian
Subject: "Axis of Evil" is Based on Reality
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2005 at 06:49
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It seems North Korea and Iran really are friends and are cooperating with each other against the United States and its allies. Here's the link: http://asia.news.yahoo.com/050225/ap/d88fjtg00.html - http://asia.news.yahoo.com/050225/ap/d88fjtg00.html
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Replies:
Posted By: dark_one
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2005 at 09:19
| Well North Korea and Iran do cooperate on missiles (one designs the other tests) because IIRC North Korea signed some sort of agreement saying that it would not test missiles. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2005 at 11:05
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Those are kafirs, the friend of Mullahs is just the Allah! ------------- 
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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2005 at 12:30
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Axis of evil?Yes it does exist.USA-NATO-UN-Israel. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2005 at 18:22
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How can you say that when NATO members like France and Germany didn't support the US in Iraq, and neither did the UN. Way to have a coherent argument. ------------- Member of IAEA |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2005 at 04:53
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if the axis of evil does exist Iraq was not a member, Iran and Iraq hated each other and all logical evidence points to that any re-armament by Saddam was more targeted against the Iranians than Americans..I think a more logical axis would be Iran-North Korea-Saudi Arabia ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2005 at 14:27
| I say good for them. Someone standing up against the world police. |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2005 at 14:27
------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2005 at 14:31
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Moreover,NATo is not only France and Germany.... ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2005 at 23:51
Of course they didn't, what else could they have reasonably done. That's all anyone can do without becoming an archenemy America. ------------- Member of IAEA |
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2005 at 23:54
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Oh yes, because they stand up against the "world police" you're going to support the world's worst police states. And let them stand up all they want, let's see what will happen. American power will not back down, the Iranian mullahs and Kim Jong Il are puny little bugs American can crush easily unless the American public wimps out. ------------- Member of IAEA |
Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 09:03
Notice the date. It was was a few weeks ago. The real question is, was there an "axis of evil" before Bush invented it? Didn't Bush clue these dictators who their buddies should be? In other words, these dictatorships wouldn't be cooperating if it were not because Bush gave them the tip to do so. Personally, I have a problem with the name "axis-of-evil." Are we living in comic book world now? What is NATO, "The Super Friends?" How about Bush calling these dictatorship by their real name: "the dictatorships-that-won't-do-what-we-say" or more truthfully, "the-countries-we-will-invade...unless-you-got-nukes." I thought he was supposed to be a straight talker. ------------- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 16:49
------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 08:59
No. The term is invented to justify US of A's policy on non-americas-view-of-democratic worlds. II.  Exactly. |
Posted By: Scytho-Sarmatian
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 05:56
Military ties between North Korea and Iran and North Korea and Iraq have been in existence for many years. Specifically, N.K. had been supplying Saddam (before Gulf War I) and is continuing to supply Iran with Scud-type missiles. All this had been going on well before 2001, of course. According to an article I read about 5 years ago by William Safire, N. Korean agents had been working with Iraqi agents in Sudan in developing WMD. I also read recently that N. Korean agents are currently active in Iran. All three countries have a record of state-sponsored terrorism. The list goes on and on...
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Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 15:47
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Well, by that token, there was another country that had ties with Saddam before the Gulf War, supplied terrorists with weapons, had agents in different countries, and took down several democratically elected countries. Yet the U.S. is not part of the countries-we'd-loved-too-bomb.
As I said, Bush told the Iranians and the N. Koreans that they should create an alliance when he declared them the targets-of-Rumsfeld. Besides of being singled out and being terrible dictatorships, those countries do not have anything in common. To spell it out: Bush created the alliance when he gave his speech. He is creating dangers for the Americans with his big mouth. I am not a fan of the Iranian or N. Korean government. They should be punished. But I don't trust Bush to be the person who will successfully do it. By the way, where are those Iraqi WMDs? ------------- |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 17:04
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If the main qualification for membership in the "Axis of Evil" was the possesion of large arsenals of nuclear weapons and other WMDs, the the USA surely would get presidency of the board of directors.
If the main qualification was the continous support of terrorist organisations, then the the USA would get honorary membership. They have supported virtually every right-wing armed terror group in the recent Middle- and South-American history. If the main qualification was the fact that the member country was ruled by a religious fundamentalist clique that got into power by very dubious means, then the USA has the all the rights to be in same club as the Iran, for example. The sheer arrogance and rightousness of the Bush-Haliburton administration is mind-boggling. What gives them the right to decide what country to possess nuclear weapons or not? Get rid of your own stuff, then we are talking. I'm far more frightened of a military power with the potential to blow up the whole planet that is controlled by a cynical and unprincipaled bunch of "Christian" fundamentalists, than by the pin-pot dictatorships of North-Korea and the like. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 22:31
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The right is totally irrelevant, it is the power that matters. "I begin by taking. I shall find scholars later to demonstrate my perfect right." ------------- Member of IAEA |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 01:16
Absolutely. I rest my case. (I think that must be the first time I agree with any of your political statements.) ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Scytho-Sarmatian
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 05:38
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Post edited for violating AE regulations.
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Posted By: Scytho-Sarmatian
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 05:45
The same goes for Hugoestr and Spartakus -- friggin' morons who want to drag everybody down to their level.
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Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 10:17
Hey! What is this about! After reading over Spartakus and Komnenos, and my posts, I did not see any kind of abusive language. I ask that you recant what you said in the quoted post and give an apology. I heard that when people debate, and on of the parties start insulting the other, is because the insulting party doesn't know what to say anymore. If you don't have anything else to say, well just say so. There is no need to throw insults around. Every one has lost a debate. It happens to all of us. ------------- |
Posted By: Jalisco Lancer
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 11:29
Dude, behave and keep the proper manners. There's a Code of Conduct and you can not insult to other forumers at Will. If you have an issue with a forumer you can express your complaint, but it is not acceptable to display such badmouth vocabulary. |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 13:16
I have been at work all day, so I missed SS's original and now censored post. "Scumbag", was that the best he could do, or was there more? In any case, I wasn't really upset by that, I've been called worse by my ex-wife. But what about arguments, did SS have any arguments? That would really interest me. It isn't very often that you find a disciple of the Bush-Haliburton regime here in the "old" Europe, so a civilised discussion about current American foreign policy with one of their supporters would have a certain novelty value. But back to the "Axis of Evil", if I remember the charming US foreign secretary's initial list correctly, there was North-Korea, Iran, Myanmar, Zimbabwe,Cuba and...on the hitlist. Which country did I leave out and which country did she leave out? And far more important why did she leave it out? Answers on a postcard! ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 13:36
I love Greece and Greek culture but I have to disagree with this statement. The U.N. never supported this war but Saddam had to be dealt with- ask the Kurds. Now we need to pull out as soon as possible. I oppose any attack on Iran though and I agree with pat Bucanan about Iraq. Look at who we are dealing with on this web site- I have to work on an assignment otherwise I would dig up more facts. Go on the Michael Savage web site and click on Know your enemy if you dare and see a real definition of evil. I warn you it is very graphic and bloody. To be honest, I could not watch it. I really feel for the families of these victims. http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/ 
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 23:59
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If I was in charge of a Middle Eastern country I would lock and and/or murder all the fundies, just like Saddam did, I would just leave out the ethnic stuff. He was an unwuitting aide to US intrests and no worse than previous governments weve suppotred for our own ends. By his removal the place is a open season for terrorists who were not there...HUGE strategic blunder. democratize the middle east....idealism, US power should not be wasted on idealism at the cost of lives ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 00:07
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Eaglecap,
After reading your beer thread, I find it imposible to engage in a Mortal Kombat debate with you--the beer bond is already too strong.  Instead I will give you pointers on how you can improve your position.
Even though your sources will convince conservatives, it will have little effect on leftists because the source you give is so biased. You would feel the same way if I gave as a reference articles on The Nation or Mother Jones, two U.S. leftist magazines. To strengthen your argument with your oponents, I encourage you to find leftist sources that support your claims. It may be easier than you think. Good luck on your assignment. ------------- |
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 00:47
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You do have to see that it worked in Japan and in some other countries. I think that if the populace of a country is educated enough, some form of representative government (not necessarily American-style democracy) can be implemented if it is nurtured. ------------- Member of IAEA |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 01:41
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it worked in Japan and Germany yet peopel too often concentrate on these rare sucesses in American natiopn building policies, and they choose to ignore all the failures, Cuba, the southern reconstruction, the Balkans, Liberia (maybe sorta) etfc ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 07:41
------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 13:43
The reason why it worked in Japan and Germany is that these countries had a democratic culture which was hijacked by a dictatorship. The other countries had only had an authoritarian past. These countries would also be examples of how lending money to poor countries helps them to become world economic powers. The rest of the countries where this has failed show how this is not true. ------------- |
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 19:08
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Japan had little if any democratic culture, they were very stratified and militaristic. I believe the main criteria for democracy is a well educated and not abject people. ------------- Member of IAEA |
Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2005 at 11:05
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Genghis,
That is what I thought too, but when I researched the topic, I discovered that there was a movement towards democracy starting in the 19th century. The source said that democracy was well under way when militarism took over. That said, if you want to provide me more evidence on the topic, I will look it it over. It could be that my source was wrong. And your criteria for democracy plays into my idea of cultural heritage: abject people abound in authoritarian societies. ------------- |
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2005 at 12:54
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That Japan did have in the 19th century, but for a quarter millenia before that they lived under the authoritarian and class-bound Tokugawa shogunate. To me it seemed kind of like the democratic period after the fall of the Soviet Union in Russia. A democracy with an authoritarian culture. ------------- Member of IAEA |
Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2005 at 23:39
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Pretty good point, Genghis, they did have a long authoritarian past. But their recent democratic past made it easier when Americans re-established it after WWII. There were still people alived at the end of WWII in both countries that had lived under a democracy. That makes a huge difference.
Transitioning from a purely authoritarian past into democracy does not work that well if the institutions are there to begin with. There is the example of the French Revolution. The country had absolute monarchs for a long time. The four estates, some kind of French congress, had not met in a long time. The revolution comes along, and first the country lives under terror, and then Napoleon becomes emperor a few years after. The French nation eventually became democratic, but the transition was long and painful. Middle Eastern countries are closer to the position of France in 1789 than to Germany and Japan of 1945. Once again, I am not an expert in French history and I will thank anyone who corrects me. I will be looking forward to your insights, Genghis. ------------- |
Posted By: RED GUARD
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 18:58
Edited: Axis of Evil= US, Britian, the Coalition, and Isreal. ------------- Quotes by your's turly: "I came, I saw, and I conquered... but only for the weekend" "This is my tank, this is my weapon, and this is my pride." "Power comes from a barrel of a gun." |