Guys and Gals, just wondering if the map below is a realistic depiction of kurdish population distribution.

that map shows kurdish living regions too largely.

thxs. Do u have anything that depicts otherwise.

actually that seems accurate.  turkey definetly has the most to lose if the kurds seperate, that kind of sucks for them! they would lost about half of their country.

I hope u r not saying that bcoz of ur personal likeness for turks.

Does anybody have any other maps for comparison.

what are you talking about?

im just pointing out that if kurds did make their own nations, turks would lost half of their country, which sucks!

actually, do i want kurds to seperate? NO.

Malizai: It's quite accurate. Though not the Armenian part...

But all maps that shows Kurdish populations are not 100 % accurate.

Thanks, Artaxiad and everyone.

I think the map above does more than asked for, very good.

You're looking at the wrong shade of green.

malizai and his propaganda maps

There are many Kurdish propaganda maps... sorry to disappoint you, but that isn't one.

no, its propaganda maps ,osmaniye is kurd city?or mus,erzurum are u crazy these cities mhp vote castles(mhp pan turanist party) 

These maps of the areas where the kurds are living, i have found today:

Take a look at this one map - "Kurdistan - the last colony":

The Kurds in Iraq:

The Kurds in Iraq and their religions:

With kurdish names:

yeah in bulgaria what about turks i wonder ?

and dream on charmaster

www.bg-turk.com/ index.php?act=forum&do=view&id=818 - 18k

cent

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=TR - http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=TR

vert good site you see kurdish populations in turkey

Chargemaster, I think you should research more and more reliable sites if you really want to learn, or just travel around Turkey. Those cities such as Malatya, Erzurum, Erzincan, Gaziantep and Elazig are some with the highest ratios of votes to nationalist parties.

Get real...

Thanks for this link, merced12

I know this site very well - http://www.ethnologue.com - www.ethnologue.com . There have interesting information.

Askolsun be arkadas... You are not inconspicuous/inappreciable too...

With these maps i don`t want to prove something to someone. I just love the maps, and when i see topic for maps, for me is interesting to search some maps and to help with them to the other users in the topic. Actually, the ethnic situation in Turkey is none too interesting for me.

I think u r suffering from tunnel vision or from hypersensitivity. I dont belong to any regional ethnicity, and dont understand how u consider it propoganda. I was simply surprised by the the size of area depicted specifically in turkey, for it was remarkably different from what i had thought.

I thank all for their contribution. thxs, Chargemaster.

Kayseri isn't a Kurdish city...I am from Kayseri and I rarely see Kurdish people there..

AND I DO NOT ACCEPT A COUNTRY NAMED KURDISTAN!

Well, no problem, anyway, but i think i am happy, that in Bulgaria don`t live kurdish minority.

Just i think, that by/through/with the maps in principle, the people can go more deep in the problems.

And if most of these maps are propaganda, i think that this is a good reason for the turk-users to find(or to make) and to post other maps, who are showing the truth about the ethnic distribution of the kurds...

Thanks, Barish. I will remember this explanation.

 M y friends dont worry about Kurds, they are happy in Turkey

We are equal

All of the cities is our cities. Kurds live in Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir....Only a minority dont like this. We fight together in wars

The cities like Elaz�g, Malatya, Erzurum, Gaziantep are yhe most nationalist cities. For example Edirne is social democrat, but Elaz�g is nationalist. I say that east doesnt mean Kurd. We are all sunni muslims

Let us talk about Kurds in Iran, In Iran kurds are sunni, but persians are sh*te , let us discuss

chargemaster friend, I have already explained what 'wrongs' on the maps are. However, okay, here is a little map to you.

http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/7412/map29uj.jpg - http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/7412/map29uj.jpg

zagros edit: map was too big, i put link in instead.

"And if most of these maps are propaganda, i think that this is a good reason for the turk-users to find(or to make) and to post other maps, who are showing the truth about the ethnic distribution of the kurds..."

Yes, many are propaganda maps, but who says that Turks will give you the truth about the ethnic distribution of the Kurds?

And vica versa.

Does any one know how many Kurdish Turkish citizens live in Istanbul? There seems to have been a large influx in the last decade.

chargemaster friend, I have already explained what 'wrongs' on the maps are. However, okay, here is a little map to you.

Thanks, TURK! That`s the thing i am talking about !

I think, you are skilful with the image-editing software. Good for you! Mersi, tesekurederim!

Well, i think it will be good if the other users post maps too. Every map is interesting, neverheless/notwithstanding that some maps are more propaganda than others.

I think that the truth can be born in the dispute, but the dispute is more visual and more interesting with maps.

Half of Iran's Kurds are shiite too, and there is no organisation as PKK running wild in the mountains.

In fact, nobody knows the truth about Kurds in Turkey. Because the census don't record ethnicity. All percentages of Kurds are estimates, and all maps should be taken with a pinch of salt.

These maps, were obviously modified according to who produced them. In Turkey, it is usually said that 'East of Euphrates' is where the Kurds live, I think it is quite ok as a rule of thumb, many maps agree with this as well. 

You can forget about the ones which show Kurdish majorities in the west, or near Iskenderun. The latter comes from Kurdish separatists wanting access to the sea for their landlocked area.

there are both sunni and shiite kurds in iran.

in iran kurds are allowed to speak their language and learn it.

they are allowed to keep  their traditions and customs.

they are allowed to call themsevles kurds.

we talk about turkey for a reason, the only country to have had a major war with the kurds.

ok, if you were fighting just a terrorist organisation, why did the war take decades and cost the lives of 30,000 people? that sounds like a civil war to me. the terrorist group obviously had support among the majority of kurds for that to happen.

You're gonna have to back that up with some supporting evidence because PKK (Pezhak) also launch attacks against Iran.  Iran helped KDP in Iraq when they had a civil war with the other group, Saddam helped the other side, this was in the mid 90s.

That wasnt a civil war, in 15 years 30000 people died. You know that there is millions of Kurds in Turkey. If it was a civil war I think in 15 years  much more people would be killed. You have also millions of Kurds in your country. Your Iran Islam Republic is a young republic. A new Kurdish state is forming in Iraq. I think you should becareful to. The maps also include Iranian soil.This isnt only our problem, I think our common problem. Blaming Turkey isnt fair, we know that terrorism in Turkey is backed by our neighbours.  USA is know in Iraq maybe they will support terrorists in your country to. I think Iran must be very careful.

First of all, PKK is using terrorist methods, but so is the Turkish state. PKK is the repons to the lame Turkish poltics that have been used in Turkey since the forming of the State, just look at their laws, some are so stupid.

Secondly, many Kurdish nationalist do not support terrorist methods.  

So your oppressing laws against minorities are democratic?

Don't compare Turkey with Middle Eastern countries, then of course it's a democracy, but if you compare it with the West, then it's another story.

First you must learn that they are not minorities, they are the main people of Turkey. You are a minority in Sweden, not the Kurds in Turkey

so you are saying that kurds out number turks in turkey??? wow, didnt know that. so the majority of the people are kurdish. interesting.

and turkey has oppressive laws against them, but was forced to changed by europe, if europe hadnt said anything, kurds would still be oppressed to this day in turkey. they are still oppresseb but not as much as before.

There was no civil war in Turkey, it was a guerilla war.  civil war would have been like spain in the 30s.

a lot of civil wars are guerilla wars.  in this time and age, guerilla fighting is the way to go. look, colombia is in civil war, but it is guerilla war. the same with other nations.

Originally posted by Evrenosgazi Originally posted by prsn41ife Originally posted by Evrenosgazi Originally posted by Cent So your oppressing laws against minorities are democratic? Don't compare Turkey with Middle Eastern countries, then of course it's a democracy, but if you compare it with the West, then it's another story. There is no oppresive laws against any people. First you must learn that they are not minorities, they are the main people of Turkey. You are a minority in Sweden, not the Kurds in Turkey   so you are saying that kurds out number turks in turkey??? wow, didnt know that. so the majority of the people are kurdish. interesting. and turkey has oppressive laws against them, but was forced to changed by europe, if europe hadnt said anything, kurds would still be oppressed to this day in turkey. they are still oppresseb but not as much as before. You understand it wrong,prsn41life .Kurds are one of the main elements in Turkey. They are everywhere. They are in the army, courthouse,politics, Medicine , trade, arts, sport...We are equal, Armenians, Greeks are minorities okay

you said that kurds were not minorities. if they arent a minority then it means they are the majority.

well what about colombia. they are in civil war yet its a guerrilla civil war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war

"A civil war is a war in which the parties within the same country or empire struggle for national control of state power. As in any war, the conflict may be over other matters such as religion, ethnicity, or distribution of wealth. Some civil wars are also categorized as revolutions when major societal restructuring is a possible outcome of the conflict. An insurgency, whether successful or not, is likely to be classified as a civil war by some historians if, and only if, organized armies fight conventional battles. Other historians state the criteria for a civil war is that there must be prolonged violence between organized factions or defined regions of a country (conventionally fought or not)."

im trying to help you understand the meaning of the word "minority".

when something is not a majority, then it is a minority. LOL, why dont you understand that?

since azeri's in iran make up 23% of the population, then by simple mathematics:

23<51 (51% being the percentage of Persians in Iran)

by that we can see that persians are the majority ethnic group in Iran, and Azeri's would go under the minority category.

another example:

whites in the USA 50%, blacks 30%

30<50

therefore, whites are the majority, blacks are the minority.

do you understand what minority means now? it has nothing to do with mixing and being part of society, its just a system of labling ethnicities within a country.

im not even going to answer you.

it could be that your english isnt good enough, and therefore you have misunderstood what we are talking about, or, you are just over reacting.

a civil war is fighting between to different factions within a country.

one faction being the government, the other being against the government. 

for example, indonisia has been in civil war for a long time, so has thailand (against the muslims in the south) and russia.

all of those civil wars are mostly unconventional.

You with youre foolish propaganda to make every single men who's living in Iran is actually "iranic" of descent, let me say it to you; it is really silly to "proove" it, whole the damn world knows wich people of wich ethnicity is but teh decission is up to THOSE people!

OMG 

Dont you find it funny how you are the only person talking like that???

I am going to explain this to you, using simple english. read carefully this time:

we were talking about kurds, and then we started talking about turkey because if the kurds were ever to make their own country, turkey would lose the most.  then after that, we started talking about the war in turkey between the government and the PKK. and then after that, we werent even talking about turkey, we were talking about what constitutes a civil war.

if you are not fluent in english, then you must not make crazy posts throwing around accusations.

and you can talk about the khuzestani's and the azeri's and the kurds of iran as much as you want. i have nothing to worry about and neither does Iran.

do i tell others who talk about iran not to? NO. they can talk about what ever they want to. its a public place, we can always have a discussion, i dont really care, im not a crazy wako nationalist, i will gladly admit my countries mistakes, and also i will gladly defend my country when it needs defending.

you are such a typical nationalist turk. always ready to talk about someone else, but when the subject is turkey you want no one to have a discussion. im sorry, but this is a public forum, not just a turkish forum. we can talk about anything historical, be it turkey, the PKK, etc....

if you dont like it, then maybe a turk only forum is best for you

Wrong! Azeri , Kurds, Gilaki, baloochi etc. etc are all Iranians and NOT minorities. They all build together the Iranian nation. It is ridicolous to call each of them a minority. We also have Arab and African minorities. Although i don't like to call them so, for me they are Iranians as well.

minority is not a derogatory term. when something is not the majoirty, it is the minority.

lets say you have 10 puppies, 9 of which are orange, and one that is blue. the blue is a minority. its a simple idea.

erci, you have got your info WRONG.

Iran never supported PKK, those sources that you found, those "experts" are wrong. Iran supported PUK (one of the factions in Iraq, cant remember the name) of Iraq against the other one. when they started fighting eachother after gulf war. PKK is heavily anti-iranian as it is anti-turkish. Iran fought their fighters (most which crossed the Turkish border) during the Iran-Iraq War. The faction which Iran supported in Iraq, their leader is now president of iraq. that kurdish guy was the guy Iran supported.

                Again English. MAN WE ARE L�V�NG �N OUR COUNTRY NOT �N USA L�KE YOU, STOP SAY�NG THE SAME TH�NG . Give different answers

In the USA only the native indians(not these indians who are comming from India) and one part of latinoamericans are minirities. All the people, who are living in the USA, but their parents are not citizens/members of the USA, are not just minorities, but diasporas. And diasporas are not only they. Diasporas are also these citizens/members of the USA, who remember from where their ancestors were coming in USA and in the same time they knows their ethnic language, but not only the english language. In example: if i become a student in the USA, in the same time i will become a part/member of the bulgarian diaspora in the USA.

The diaspora is minority too, but yet is "diaspora", not just "minority".

ok, im going to explain this to you guys one more time!

if you do not make up the majority, that makes you a minority. it is not a bad thing to be a minority.

in the USA, everyone is equal. the mexicans, blacks, chinese, iranians, turks, etc.. are all minorities, because the whites are the majority. but this does not mean that the minorities are not equal. blacks are just as american as the whites, turks are just as american as the whites, etc...

i dont care how integrated turks are into turkish society, they are still a minority.  what do you not understand about that????

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary - http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: mi�nor�i�ty javascriptopWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?minori02.wav=minority')">
Pronunciation: m&-'nor-&-tE, mI-, -'n�r-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Usage: often attributive
1 a : the period before attainment of majority b : the state of being a legal http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/minor - minor
2 : the smaller in number of two groups constituting a whole; specifically : a group having less than the number of votes necessary for control
3 a : a part of a population differing from others in some characteristics and often subjected to differential treatment  b : a member of a minority group <an effort to hire more minorities>

its just simple as that. minority is not a bad thing, its just like simple math.

10 is bigger than 5, therefore 10 is the bigger number.

it works the same with population, lets say there is a country of 50,000 people.  if 40,000 of them are purple, and the other 10,000 are orange, and if they are totally equal and friends with eachother and have no problem, the orange people would still be counted as a minority in the census.

they can now, europe forced them to give the kurds more rights like a few years ago.

each civil war is different. the chechens are figting in their own way against, russia. the PKK fought its own way in turkey. the colombian rebels are fighting their own way against colombia. etc....

each civil war is different, but when there are two factions of the same country, fighting one another, that is civil war. right now, in iraq there is civil war, but the media doesnt say it. sunni's are killing shia, shia are killing sunni, sunni are killing kurds, etc... that is civil war.