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rhazes
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Topic: Great languages for poetry Posted: 28-Mar-2005 at 20:33 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
Originally posted by rhazes
Originally posted by Gazi
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
A poem by Rumi:
Yar mara, Qar mara, Eshgh-e jegar khar mara Yar thoee, Qar thoee, Khajeh negahdar mara
Nuh thoee, Ruh thoee, Fateh-o maftuh thoee Sin-e mashruh thoee, Pard-e asrar mara
Nur thoee, Sur thoee, Dolat-e mansur thoee Morq ko tur thoee, Khasteh be menqar mara
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When you say Rumi do you mean Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi or some other Rumi?
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He meant Molana Jalal al-din Rumi:
Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi or Jalal al-Din Muhammad Balkhi (also known as Mowlavi or Moulana, meaning my guide in Iran, Central and South Asia or Mevlana meaning our guide in Turkey) (September 30, 1207 - December 17, 1273 CE) was a Persian poet and Sufi mystic, who was born in Balkh (then a city of the greater Khorasan province, Persia at that time, present Afghanistan) and died in Konya (present Turkey, then within the Seljuk Empire's territory). When the Mongols invaded Central Asia, his father (Baha'al din Veled) set out to Konya, Anatolia within the westernmost territories of Seljuk Empire.
Rumi was 18 years old at that time. Rumi was sent to Damascus and
Aleppo to obtain religious education. His father became the head of a
Madrassah (religious school) and when his father died Rumi succeeded
him, at the age of 25. He was trained in the religious and mystical
doctrines by Syed Burhan al-Din but it was his meeting with the dervish
Shams Tabriz that changed his life completely. Rumi spent most of his
later years of life in Anatolia and also completed his masterpiece
there. He died on December 17, 1273 in Konya in present day Turkey; Rumi was laid to rest beside his father, and a splendid shrine was erected over his tomb.
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You are right about his life, but in fact, he was Turkish. Mevlana
Celaleddin Rumi was a Turkish poet who used mostly Persian language... |
No, every academic reference notes the fact that he was ethnically
Persian, and that his parents were ethnically Persian. His first
language was Farsi, and he only moved on to Turkey (at age 18) when the
Mongolians swept through central Asia.
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ramin
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Posted: 28-Mar-2005 at 14:17 |
@ Oguzoglu;
lol, no. Read the biography one more time,
it says born in Balkh, studied in Damascus, grew old and died in Turkey.
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"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Posted: 28-Mar-2005 at 09:10 |
Originally posted by rhazes
Originally posted by Gazi
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
A poem by Rumi:
Yar mara, Qar mara, Eshgh-e jegar khar mara Yar thoee, Qar thoee, Khajeh negahdar mara
Nuh thoee, Ruh thoee, Fateh-o maftuh thoee Sin-e mashruh thoee, Pard-e asrar mara
Nur thoee, Sur thoee, Dolat-e mansur thoee Morq ko tur thoee, Khasteh be menqar mara
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When you say Rumi do you mean Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi or some other Rumi?
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He meant Molana Jalal al-din Rumi:
Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi or Jalal al-Din Muhammad Balkhi (also known as Mowlavi or Moulana, meaning my guide in Iran, Central and South Asia or Mevlana meaning our guide in Turkey) (September 30, 1207 - December 17, 1273 CE) was a Persian poet and Sufi mystic, who was born in Balkh (then a city of the greater Khorasan province, Persia at that time, present Afghanistan) and died in Konya (present Turkey, then within the Seljuk Empire's territory). When the Mongols invaded Central Asia, his father (Baha'al din Veled) set out to Konya, Anatolia within the westernmost territories of Seljuk Empire. Rumi was 18 years old at that time. Rumi was sent to Damascus and Aleppo to obtain religious education. His father became the head of a Madrassah (religious school) and when his father died Rumi succeeded him, at the age of 25. He was trained in the religious and mystical doctrines by Syed Burhan al-Din but it was his meeting with the dervish Shams Tabriz that changed his life completely. Rumi spent most of his later years of life in Anatolia and also completed his masterpiece there. He died on December 17, 1273 in Konya in present day Turkey; Rumi was laid to rest beside his father, and a splendid shrine was erected over his tomb.
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You are right about his life, but in fact, he was Turkish. Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi was a Turkish poet who used mostly Persian language...
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Exarchus
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Posted: 28-Mar-2005 at 07:43 |
Poetry isn't singing, all language are suitable IMO.
Then, if you look at the sounds. Then it's easier, the more there are sounds, the better it is.
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Vae victis!
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Emile Boutros
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Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 20:51 |
Arabic and Persian, then Gaelic. I cannot say that I find most European language suitable for poetry. THey are very ridgid sounding and I am not sure how to describe it. They sound like tetris pieces lol. Most modern poetry in all languages sucks. Not how they sound but what they are about. Awards are given to the most medicore of writers.
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ramin
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Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 04:02 |
all poems in all languages carry emotion, feeling and deep meaning, and
of course they don't mean and sound the same in another language. We cannot translate a language to another without losing some of its contents. Nothing new 'bout that.
Edited by ramin
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"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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coolstorm
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Posted: 27-Mar-2005 at 02:34 |
in my opinion, chinese poetry is really amazing. it's attached to emotion, feeling, and lots of deep meaning in few words with rythm. however, when it's translated into other languages, it loses some most important characters.
if u dun read/ understand classical chinese, you will never be able to feel that emotion.
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���DZj�~�� ��������
�� �� �C �q �D �� �� �� �� �T �� �� �g �A �� �� �� �� �� �U �N �� ��
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rhazes
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Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 17:11 |
Originally posted by Gazi
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
A poem by Rumi:
Yar mara, Qar mara, Eshgh-e jegar khar mara Yar thoee, Qar thoee, Khajeh negahdar mara
Nuh thoee, Ruh thoee, Fateh-o maftuh thoee Sin-e mashruh thoee, Pard-e asrar mara
Nur thoee, Sur thoee, Dolat-e mansur thoee Morq ko tur thoee, Khasteh be menqar mara
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When you say Rumi do you mean Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi or some other Rumi? |
He meant Molana Jalal al-din Rumi:
Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi or Jalal al-Din Muhammad Balkhi (also known as Mowlavi or Moulana,
meaning my guide in Iran, Central and South Asia or Mevlana meaning our guide in Turkey) ( September 30, 1207 - December 17, 1273 CE) was a Persian poet and Sufi mystic, who was born in
Balkh (then a city of the greater Khorasan
province, Persia at that time, present Afghanistan) and died in Konya (present Turkey, then within the Seljuk Empire's territory). When the
Mongols invaded Central Asia, his
father (Baha'al din Veled) set out to Konya, Anatolia within the westernmost
territories of Seljuk Empire. Rumi was 18 years old at that time. Rumi
was sent to Damascus and Aleppo to obtain religious education. His father became the head of a Madrassah (religious school) and
when his father died Rumi succeeded him, at the age of 25. He was trained in the religious and mystical doctrines by Syed Burhan
al-Din but it was his meeting with the dervish Shams Tabriz that changed his life completely. Rumi spent most of his later years
of life in Anatolia and also completed his masterpiece there. He died on December 17, 1273 in Konya in present day Turkey; Rumi was laid to rest beside his father, and a
splendid shrine was erected over his tomb.
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Gazi
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Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 15:56 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
A poem by Rumi:
Yar mara, Qar mara, Eshgh-e jegar khar mara Yar thoee, Qar thoee, Khajeh negahdar mara
Nuh thoee, Ruh thoee, Fateh-o maftuh thoee Sin-e mashruh thoee, Pard-e asrar mara
Nur thoee, Sur thoee, Dolat-e mansur thoee Morq ko tur thoee, Khasteh be menqar mara
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When you say Rumi do you mean Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi or some other Rumi?
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Freedom is the recognition of necessity.-Friedrich Engels
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 06:43 |
Poems of Khayyam are wonderful, in the last robai, there are five Tobe with five different meanings.
konam shab tobe = to repent tonight labaa'lab tobe = lips on your lips tobe kojast = where are you? ze tobe Yaarab tobe! = between you and the God, you are better!
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ramin
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Posted: 26-Mar-2005 at 06:08 |
Some odes of Khayyam, (Persian philosopher, Mathematician and poet).
Literal (English) |
Persian |
Khayyam, if you are intoxicated with wine, enjoy!
If you are seated with a lover of thine, enjoy!
In the end, the Void the whole world employ
Imagine thou art not, while waiting in line, enjoy! |
Khayaam, Agar ze baad-e masti, Khosh baash
Baa mah-o rokhi agar neshasti, Khosh baash
Chon aaghebat-e kaar-e Jahaan nisti ast
Engaar ke nisti, Cho hasti... Khosh baash |
O friend, for the morrow let us not worry
This moment we have now (together), let us not hurry
When our time comes, we shall not tarry
With seven thousand-year-olds, our burden carry. |
Ey Doost, biaa taa gham-e fardaa nakhorim
In yek dam-e omr raa ghanimat shemorim
Fardaa ke az in deire kohan dar gozarim
Baa haft(7) hezaar(thousands) saalegan ham-safarim |
At dawn came a calling from the tavern
Hark drunken mad man of the cavern
Arise; let us fill with wine one more turn
Before destiny fills our cup, our urn. |
Aamad sahari nedaa ze mei-khaane-e maa
Ke ey rend-e kharaabaani-e divaane-e maa
bar khiz; ke por konim peimaane ze mey
Zaan pish ke por konand peimaane-e maa
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Heaven is incomplete without a heavenly romance
Let a glass of wine be my present circumstance
Take what is here now, let go of a promised chance
A drumbeat is best heard from a distance. |
GOoyand kasaan behesht ba hur khosh ast
Man miguyam ke aab-e angur khosh ast
In naghd begir va dast az aan nesye bedaar
Ke aavaze dohol shenidan az dur khosh ast |
I resolve daily that at dusk I shall repent
For a night with a cup full of wine spent.
In the presence of flowers, why shall I repent?!
In such company, I only regret I ever resolved to repent! |
Har rooz bar aanam ke konam shab tobe
Az jame piale, labaa'lab tobe
Aknun ke resid vaght va mahal, tobe kojast?!
Dar mousem-e gol ze tobe Yaarab tobe! |
Edited by ramin
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"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 09:17 |
IMHO, poetry can take advantage of a rich and
expressive vocabulary and a melodic and rhythmic
language. In a sense every language is good for
writting poems though you hardly can write poems for
the beauty of the Mediterranean coasts if you speak a
language of a people that haven't ever seen the sea,
not for a lack of imagination but for a lack of words!
Additionally, words generates thoughts stimulus and the
other way around. I believe that Spanish (South
America) sounds quite beautiful and inspiring, Russian
is very emotional but sounds a bit strict. English is
very hard, harsh and cold w hitch can mislead to a lack
of emotion. I would prefer not to listen poetry in
Chinese for their strict orders of accent pronunciation
and emphasis.
Nevertheless, I strongly believe that ancient Creek
would be the most melodic and rich language with a
pleasant to hear pronunciation.
Edited by Odysseas
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Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 12:46 |
Persian and Turkish...
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kipchack
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Posted: 06-Feb-2005 at 20:06 |
of course Turkish..
and maybe
2-) Persian
3-) Swedish
4-) Gaelic
5-) Russian
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a kipchack never dies..
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 20:32 |
if you can read Chinese, Chinese word are really fascinating, 3 words can create a better rhythm and convey the meaning so clearly while in English, that takes some time.
For the above sentence, ___________ is enough. And listening to these poem songs from Tang and Sung really gets my emotional...
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Capt. Lubber
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Posted: 30-Jan-2005 at 08:54 |
I don't particularly like poetry. But most things sound better if it is a language you don't understand. So for me that includes most languages except for scandinavian, english and spanish
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Loke, Attila, the grete conqueror,
Deyde in his sleep, with shame and dishonour,
Bleedinge ay at the nose in dronkenesse,
A captayin shoulde live in sobrenesse
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Turk
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Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 13:01 |
I got this off a Chinese fortune cookie -
"If you wish to end a relationship with your woman, recite to her a poem in Farsi"
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 05:51 |
hmmm
then i must forgot one word befor the word ( Hamash ), it should meant the others or the rest are .......
anyway it is offensive and i didnt know it
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 00:42 |
Except the last line which says all three are ..., yes!
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azimuth
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Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 14:20 |
ops
i always thought that it meant that
the pronounciation Arabic
The iranian is Sugar
The turkish is flower
and the rest of languages are nothing
no?
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