US signs missile defense deal with Poland.

Originally posted by Temujin Originally posted by Leonidas yes, but who has the cash and who owes who? The US is pulling down the eurozone first, im still waiting to see if aussiland goes with it. Japan is pulling its head in  and the UK is already toasted. Deflating assets make for rich pickings, for who has the cash. BTW im hearing it is russian money that buys the good property in the UK while everyone else is struggling. The Russians will sell their gas to europe no matter what, and if not then to China, Japan or even to the M/E. There are many other things you can stop spending on before you turn off the heating. If there is any time to recliam some lost ground i would imagine now would be it. what you describe is a static situation, but economy is a cash flow, so it might be that we talk about two different things actually. the thing is, even if it appears that Russia or China have the US/European cash now, that doesn't mean it remains. Russia and China need the cash to spent on things. neither Russia nor China generate money, Russia for example gets it's money from selling ressources. it can however not sell the gas to China because China doesn't generate money, unlike Europe. the Chinese people are in general too poor to buy the gas, unlike the europeans who have a comparatively rich population that can afford buying the gas. japan is part of "the west" too, and the middle east has no market for gas. same is pretty much true for China, China produces western stuff for a western market in western-owned facilities. in a hypothetical situation, a China that ousted the western companies and seized them can still produce those goods but the western market is closed to them and again, the common Chinese people are too poor to buy them so they lost their source of income.

i understand it is in a state of flux. but it still doesn't change the situation at hand. cash flow is at the hands of those that produce and sell more stuff (that others want/need) relative to everyone else. so right now its energy, raw materials, food and then we can work into industrial production/goods. A great measure is the ability to earn foreign  currency, not access foreign debt. China does produce wealth, as does Russia it doesnt make much diffrnece on how they do. Its their ability to do so thats important.

 Dont be fooled in thinking the Chinese are our factory hands, while they are not independant of our economies but they certianly dont depend  on us either. Inter Emerging market, asian and especally their internal trade is very big. Go to the main emerging markets like the PRC and yes they are relatively poor, but GDP is growing at a much greater clip, while in surplus and at a greater speed than population growth. Yep that means each person on average is getting richer. Rightly or wrongly, with an inflation spiral risking to break out, wages are increasing quite dramatically and with CCP approval. So its the story of the rising chinese consumer as well as producer.  In the US/UK they are experiancing deflating wealth, thanks to some history making levels of deverageing across their economy. Most industrial production was shifted offshore long ago, mainly to China. So we have the story of the declining anglo consumer. The producer part is limited at this point in time to high value and very effecient operaters. Who right now doing very well in exporting.

While one is rich and the other is poor, there is a transfer of wealth shifting over as we speak, so that gap you speak off - is narrowing.

Russia sells gas to turkey and also, if needed to iran like last year. The PRC buys LPG shipped from Australia so they can certainly afford the cheaper stuff to be piped in. FYI, the PRC sometimes competes with Japan over regional energy supply as they do over other stuff like wood chips, coal or iron. So resource rich Russia has choices and with them leverege, not Europe or the US.

Missile "Defense"? Most people, all governments included, are quite aware that there is nothing defensive about this missile system. The system is basically an offensive one, made to ensure the pre-emptive strike capability of the US. I mean, just look at the official reason--Iranian attack on Europe? Thats just a good joke, we all know Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map before it starts its inevitable conquest of Europe

I worry that after Russia is dismembered and removed as a factor in european politics, Germany might act cocky, thinks it calls the shots and make land claims on Poland.

Poland's Kaczynski Wants to Stop German Land Claims
http://strasbourgnews.blogspot.com/2007/08/polan

Originally posted by Władysław Warnencz Anton,you seem to be an inteligent man,yet strike me with you're love torwards Russia and hatred to anything western...Just say you'de love to see a new Russian Empire occupying eastern Europe or even a new USSR and stop playing stupid...I'd personally love to see Russia cut into a 100 small countries...

Originally posted by Władysław Warnencz I'd personally love to see Russia cut into a 100 small countries...

What about Germany?

If Russia is dismembered, German militarism might grow and be directed against Poland.

Originally posted by Temujin i assume the latter

Originally posted by Penelope   Yes, a very common misconception indeed. Similar to people thinking that China and North Korea are good friends, which definately isnt the case.

yeah i know, thats not what i implied. i mean Goergia and Russia obviously aren't good friend either. however China feels comfort with NK at its borders and not the US.

Originally posted by Temujin Originally posted by Sparten Temujin; Russia has a lot of cash lots, something US dose not these days.   Now imagine if they and their buds the Chinese decide to dump all those greebacks they hold................ this is funny because the "cash" Russia has comes from the West (europe) and same goes for China which prides itself with western achievements and money. i ask you who really has the money?

right now the Russians, the 'friendly' middle eastern petro-economies and the Chinese. They hold most of the US debt (treasuries) right now and with that the power to make the greenback worth less than it already is. They don't because it would cause economic chaos, but they have that choice. not the other way around. The question should be, who's paying a mortage to who? 

right now its the I.O.USA



Edited by Leonidas - 25-Aug-2008 at 13:51

Originally posted by Temujin this has nothing to do with nukes alone but with the ability of global influence and ability for intervention, something Russia lost almost totally (Serbia, Afghanistan, just to mention the closest). i already said you number of nukes is pointless because even one nuke alone is thread enough so considder France in your neighbourhood.

Originally posted by Sparten Temujin; Russia has a lot of cash lots, something US dose not these days.   Now imagine if they and their buds the Chinese decide to dump all those greebacks they hold................

this is funny because the "cash" Russia has comes from the West (europe) and same goes for China which prides itself with western achievements and money. i ask you who really has the money?

oh yeah and BTW, why does everyone think Russia and China are so good friends?


Edited by Temujin - 24-Aug-2008 at 19:44